Legion TD 3.1x feedback

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Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  Daredevil on Sat May 21, 2011 12:03 am

I'd like to start with complimenting you on your work on Legion TD 3, overall is a big improvement over Legion TD 2 IMHO. You'll find some feedback to the 3.1a release below;

Waves

Wave 9: Too easy in it's current state, could do with more oompf


Ghost

Overall: Could do with a better tank


Beast

Greymane: Buff does not affect other units, is this intended?


Mech

-- Zeus : spell damage increase (40 to 100)
This change is not reflected in the tooltip.


Goblin

Clockwerk: Would it be possible to change the damage done by the Cluster Rockets to a % based damage done, that way the Cluster Rockets will be viable even in later waves

Flying Machine / Helicopter: Does not really fit within the overall Goblin theme

Steamroller: Does not receive the Telescope / Advanced Telescope bonus from the Flying Machine / Helicopter, is this intended?

Helicopter: Tooltip reads "Advance Telescope" should be "Advanced Telescope"


Paladin

Knight / Cavalier: Their tanking capabilities are a bit underwhelming for their cost, the Cavelier's ability is also somewhat odd, maybe change it to a passive armour bonus for global damage reduction?


Nature

-- Tree of Knowledge: limit to 20 target on AE
This change is not reflected in the tooltip.

Sword Mage: Ability is a bit boring


Last edited by Daredevil on Sat May 21, 2011 1:11 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  HuanAk on Sat May 21, 2011 12:22 pm

Thank, I like your feedback, lots of information in good format.

Good Idea (but may not change)
- Wave 9: Too easy in it's current state, could do with more oompf (wave 9 already harder than version 2.7, it take some time for people to learn my version before make it harder again)
- Ghost --> Overall: Could do with a better tank (yes, I need more feedback about how Ghost doing for lvl10+. was thinking about change light armor to heavy on their upgraded outcast)

Will change list :
- spell damage increase (40 to 100), This change is not reflected in the tooltip. (will fix )
- Helicopter: Tooltip reads "Advance Telescope" should be "Advanced Telescope" (will fix )
- Tree of Knowledge: limit to 20 target on AE is not reflected in the tooltip (will fix )

won't change:
- Greymane: Buff does not affect other units, is this intended? (yes, it is, beast's splash damage is carefully calculate, so can't have two AE buff. now Greymane is actually more useful as a tank)
- Clockwerk's ability : this ability been changed many time during beta, any AE spell is imbalance in Legion TD, so I will either OP or useless. really hard to balance.
- Steamroller: Does not receive the Telescope / Advanced Telescope (steamroller is a melee unit, and it have very good stat without damage aura)
- Flying Machine / Helicopter: Does not really fit within the overall Goblin theme (I won't add dwarf builder in future)
- Knight / Cavalier: (each race have 1 special ability, paladin = heal. so can't give 2nd ability and save for next race)



version 3.1b is out, if you have any idea or bug report, let me know.



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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  Szecsa on Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:25 pm

Hey,

We play a lot on this map. Love it, but there are some annoying thing on this map.

1, Mercenary

It is still so imba. It always make the game unbalanced until lvl20. For the waves you build really cheap towers and you can send also big summons.
Lvl1: 2Z
Lvl2: 3Z
Lvl3: 4Z
lvl4: 2Z+1X
and so on..

The problem with this, you can reach a really high inc and from lvl5 you can 1 or 2 bloodorcs per level, and also you can research 1 or 2 lumber harvesting per level. If you build on mid, you can keep 2 waves with really cheap towers from lvl1: (3Z, 5Z, etc.) You will have a really big amount of gold: you can research faster the lumber harvesting and you can also send summons, and your lane-mate can go on full-inc.
Please increase the cost of mercenary towers.

(Sometimes there is a bug, when in the river the mercenary towers are disappearing. The models are there, but the real towers aren't there, only the models.)

2., Arctic

The magnataur towers on lvl5 can't kill the birds with 1 attack on each. Is it on purpose? After 1 attack, the birds has 1 (!!). Please increase the dmg of magnataurs by 1.

3., Beast

Before the lvl started, if the greymane "shout" the units around him get the damage+armors. (they get the buff) But, during the lvl it won't happen. Fix pls, that they don't get the buff before the lvl starting. It's deceptive.

Many times, during the lvl, the greymanes are just walking. There are places, where they can get closer to the creeps, but they don't go, just walking round and around. I suggest, descrease the model size of greymane, and i think it will solve the problem. (or give them a little bit higher attack range than ogres have.)



Finally, can you give me a xls (or sth) table, which contains the stats of the creeps. (like on legiontd.com)
I love calculating, but some datas are missing.

I need these:
Movespeed
Attack speed
DPS


(And also if you have the whole table, I would be grateful, if you send me to compare with mine.)

Thanks in advance,
Szecsa

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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  HuanAk on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:10 pm


Good feedback, I like it

1, Mercenary : will slightly change in next version
- damage type change from chao/chao/chao/chao to normal/siege/magic/chao
- unit is 30% weaken after teleport to king

2., Arctic : will check, have not problem to add 1 damage

3, Beast : building mode is bug, will fix. (it is there for fun:) )
- greymanes's collision size will lower

I don't have stat for creep yet (only have stat for tower/fighter), I can post the stat for tower/fighter after tidy up and remove extra information



-----------

for Zeus, I made a mistake on change log, it should be
Zeus : spell damage increase (40 to 50), not
Zeus : spell damage increase (40 to 100)

and Ghost's Forsaken's One will change form Light->Heavy armor in next version


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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  Szecsa on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:55 am

Hey!

Thanks for the changes!

I welcome the mercenary's changes, but I think it is not enough. I know it is a builder like "strong in the early and weak in the late", but I think it need to be more balanced in the early and also in the lategame.
First of all, the most imbalanced unit of mercenary is the second unit. (X)

It has 1500 hp and forti armor for 25 gold and 50 lumber. It has only 1 weak lvl, which is the lvl6, but if you add siege dmg for this unit, it will be more stronger than now.
My suggest is, decrease the hp of this unit: 1500 -> 1250.
I think, now it is a joke, that 2X keep lvl5 and 3X keep lvl7. (600 and 900 value)

And also the first tower (Z) need a little higher cost. 5 gold -> 8 gold (Small change, but it neeed to be more balanced.)

The other probleming unit is the strongest tower, we should try to find out a different cost for it, because if you build all your wood for lvl9, you can't keep it. (~2000 lumber->20 Huanak TW)


2., Elf builder

The most probleming unit is Lina. (don't know the exact name, sorry)
It has a low cast animation and attack animation. Now it always want to cast Faerie fire for the units, and it can't attack. (it has a high mana regen, and every 2 sec, she cast a faerie fire on the units.)
Try it: for example, build 3-4 lina and watch them. They won't attack, only cast the Faerie fire on the units. My suggestion is increase the mana cost of faerie fire and also increase the duration of it. Maybe Lina starts with 10 mana, and 1 faerie costs 10 mana, and her mana regen would be 1 mana/s. So every 10 sec she casts a faerie and in the remaining time she can attack. (But this change is a really big nerf for her, and I think it is not necessary.) So I suggest, change the cast animation time of faerie fire, (or if need change the model, if lina is not suitable for this) and remain the same value like now.


Today, I'll have more time for legion, so I make some notes about my opinions.

Thanks for handling my suggestions!



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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  HuanAk on Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:08 am

Yes, Lina(Ascedent) is bug, will change it for sure (New Lina : spell automatic cast on every attack).

----------------
for Mercenary, It should be easy (like Pure Lumber in old day). here is quick review about Mercenary:

Mercenary's Number :
A, with max lumber plus 1000 income, you will get 1500 gold, 1500 lumber per wave. now try work out how to get max value out of it Smile (I think around 10,000 value, that is why I don't want to adjust cost, unless I want to lower 10k value to 9k/8k)

B, 10,000 value can defend lvl23-25.

C, you can max lumber around lvl12/13

now, there are many way to play Mercenary (which is GOOD ! )
1, summon PanicX only(first unit), max lumber as soon as possible(at lvl12/13), then upgrade king for 2 level, save up gold. and change builder. king can defend all leaked for next 5 level.

2, summon best unit (2nd or 3rd), spent lumber on Barrack, max lumber around lvl15/16. keep summon and never change builder. you are strong untill lvl25

3, summon whatever you want. spent lumber on barrack anytime you want. max lumber around lvl18-21. ...... now : save enough gold, quickly summon enough to defend, then change builder, build something(don't upgrade yet). and change back to mercenary..... this way you can defend untill lvl30

-------------

overall, Mercenary is easy for noob, but not so good for Pro. because for pro, any race can defend untill lvl30.

BUT : Mercenary is too powerful if over-summon.. I think it is ok for them to defend their own lane, but don't want them to defend all leaked Sad .

so in next version. Mercenary's unit will weaken after teleport to king or fight last longer than 20 second. (30% weaken, similar to Gonbin's Blaster ability)


----------------
for siege damage on 2nd unit. it actually weaken, because chao do 100%, seige only do 90%. and for lvl6/lvl11.

900 value on lvl7 is ok :
- try Marine, build 3 Komodo(180x3=540) + 3 mermaid(130x3=390) = 930 . then 4 komodo for lvl8 & 9.

First tower is so cheap because I want people use them more often, so they can max lumber at lvl12/13 and change builder (any smart player).

cost on last tower is so funny Smile, it allow player have to work out how to spent your lumber to get max value Smile

overall, Mercenary is for noob in early game, but Pro can still play it for late game. remember I changed the Advance Barrack just because mercenary have too much lumber (cannot summon untill lvl10/15)


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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  Szecsa on Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:49 am

Thanks for the tips for mercenary, I tried most of them, and it worked well.

There are some bugs, which I found.

1, Priest (Paladin)

Same problem like Lina: Many times they just heal the others, and don't attack. It is very annoying.

2, Steamroller (Goblin)

They don't get the + dmg from Copter's telescope. (On assault tank it works.)

3, Egg (Marine)

I think you should rework his skill. Many times it can't do the 'great attack', because it dies. I think, it should be reworked like AOE bomb, when it dies. (small area 50 dmg) OR just give a higher attack speed when it has under % hp, that the 'giant attack' could work.

4, Game mode

Some days ago I mistyped the gamemode, I wrote "-sd?", and it worked well I think, but on the right top corner, the game mode status showed: "-sd -hg -x3". During the game, the -gg mode also worked, and the other modes also worked. So there weren't any bugs, but it was a little bit annoying in the game mode status on the top-right corner.


There are some balance suggestion.

1, Mermaid (Marine)

I think this unit is one of the most imbalanced unit in the all game. Sorry, her skill. I think you should nerf this skill. My suggestion: reduce the armor by 3. So the new value: +3 frost armor.

2, Oceanus (Element)

The other imbalanced unit, which is born for x3, really Smile It could have a really high inc for lvl10, and also for lvl20. (It can reach 7/15 until lvl20 easily.) For the lvl1, if you built 4 aqua, and after that you build 1 oceanus / lvl, you can hire 1 whisp in every round, and it won't leak. (Lvl7 and lvl8 can be problematic, but these are just small leaks.)
So my suggestion: reduce his attack by 5. (On aquas by 3.)
Small nerf, but I think this builder need it.

3, Zeus (Mech)

Hopefully you know, the mech is on of the builders who are getting worse in x3. Zeus is a really peculiar unit of mech, so I give some buff for him.
- Increase his attack by 2.
- Decrease his cost by 10.

4, Gnoll savage (Beast)

Honestly, I never build this unit, because it is not suitable for this game: weak and low. So I give some buff for him, just a small one.
- Change his armor to Medium.

5, Tree of Knowledge (Nature)

I think, this unit is really good, but it is useless for lvl20. I suggest a little buff, which make him a little bit stronger against ranged attack, and a decrease his fcking imbalanced skill (Forbidden Fruit).
- Instead of 24%, it should give a constant value for the backdmg, maybe 30 dmg. And it also work on ranged units.
- Decrease the 'dying dmg' to 200.

6, Goliath (Nature)

First time when I look at the Goliath's attack dmg I got shocked Smile This unit has a large amount of useful skills, and they make Goliath awesome: high attack dmg, armor for the allies, income dmg reduction. So I think, you should decrease his attack dmg a little bit, and it will be more suitable.
- Decrease his attack dmg by 15.



I hope, you accept any changes of these, I have more some ideas, so next time I'm coming Smile

Sz

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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  HuanAk on Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:57 am

3.2 beta coming out soon (New race : Orc almost done).

I agree about most of your suggestion. just remember my version is slightly difference. that is : all race are powerful. and the game balance them by carefully adjust creep's difficult for each level.

in my version, all race have 1-2 powerful unit. and player need at lease 7/7 lumber with 200 income before lvl20, or you will leaked later

show me the build or replay if you can get 7/15 at lvl20 without feed from leaker. then I will check out the imbalance unit and adjust. (most race can do 7/10 at lvl20. but 7/15 is a bit hard or unsafe)


Priest (Paladin) - yes, priest have very good heal, but they cant' attack while healing. it can be OP some time, or weak other time. very strange unit... but work well for now.
Game mode - hg and x3 is *hidden* default for MEGA version..and without gg, all creep give 1 gold.
Steamroller - is melee unit (look at model, it is a roller !!. similar to Sea Giant = melee, Hydra = range). the reason for melee is because I don't want to lower it damage (I have to lower damage if Telescope aura work on this unit)
Egg - egg only useful for lvl1-5 (as fortified tank), then forget again.... egg is good unit, but sky dragon is weak.

Mermaid - I agree Mermaid is powerful for two effect : slowed and armor. I won't change it, but will change buff's duration so one mermaid cannot cast on 2 fighter.
Oceanus - base on my dps sheet, Oceanus seen ok. but Fenix may be too powerful ? show me the replay or build with 7/15 at lvl20, I will try find out how to adjust element.
Zeus - is one of most powerful unit in game now, so can't buff again. remember mech is 2nd best race atm (nature is the best nature). Mech have many build. try out golem + zeus build Smile (build 1x pyro at lvl1).
Gnoll savage - if I ever make x1 version. then Gnoll savage will be one of most powerful unit. (stronger than Fangtooth) . I actually build 2xGnoll savage + dragon in early game. it is useful as tank & dps untill you get red dragon.
Goliath - yes, you should spam 1 row of them. Tree of Knowledge have been nerfed so hard. so best unit for nature is Goliath + archer

remember, all race have 1-2 powerful unit. the main goal is get at lease 7/7 lumber with 200 income before lvl20, or you will leaked.

(check out Demi's mortor team, it is best dps unit atm, I leave it as it is untill more people abuse it )

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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  HuanAk on Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:55 am


Mercenary changed :
- you cannot summon higher than Recommend Value for next level

eg,
if recommend value for level 10 = 1800
and recommend value for level 11 = 2000
then you cannot summon more than 2000 at level 10.



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Re: Legion TD 3.1x feedback

Post  HuanAk on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:46 am

Update :

here is a working version of beta ready for public
http://jx3.net/tdg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=3913&p=33465#p33465

Legion TD Mega 3.2 (Beta 4)
- New Race : Orc (strong melee race, special ability = healing aura 20hp/second)

Mercenary changes:
- units is 30% weaker after 30 second ( mean 30% weaker @ defend king)
- Add summon cap (cannot summon too much)
- damage type changes: Chao /Chao /Chao /Chao --> Piercing / Siege / Normal /Chao

Pathing:
- Units from King's area won't run up
- all units from King's area have 0 collision

balance adjusted:
- changes all creep's armor 3, and health is adjusted ( won't affact melee/range. but spell damage is weaker).
- lvl5 is easier, lvl9 is harder, lvl28 is easier
- Ghost : Forsaken One's armor changed (light->heavy)
- Greymane : ability is self only ( work correct in building mode)
- Mermaid : buff change (12 second --> 10 second. +6 armor --> +3 armor)

--------------------
What next ?
- working on Arena Mode ( east team vs west team fight in middle of map, after lvl10, 20 and 30)


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