Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

Post  LRN on Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:27 am

This sheet ( lrn.no-ip.info/other/LegionTD_2.8_beta_1.05_lumber_harvesting.pdf - this is not a link, since i am not allowed to post links) tells you when it is more efficient to buy more wisps, and when - buy a lumber harvesting upgrade. This is for 2.8 beta 1.05.
Namely, if you are only concerned with harvesting speed increase, you should upgrade:
1) When you have 4 wisps
2) When you have 6 wisps
3) When you have 13 wisps
4) When you have 11 wisps (yes, it's less than 13, because this upgrade gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)
5) When you have 15 wisps
6) When you have 12 wisps (yes, it's less than 15, because this upgrade gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)
However, if you are counting your gold too, then you should upgrade:
1) When you have 5 wisps
2) When you have 14 wisps
3-6) After you get your 30th wisp
This is because the upgrades increment your lumber-per-second-per-wisp value in almost linear fashion after 2nd upgrade, while the growth of their cost is non-linear, so it remains more profitable to buy more wisps than to do upgrades level 3-6.
This sheet does not take the food cost into account, but it's pretty minor for full-time incomer (one 24-gold farm allows you to buy 400 gold worth of wisps), and part-time incomers will build farms anyway.

Maybe the upgrade efficiency should be improved, because at the moment upgrading/not upgrading is a no-brainer (except for upgrades 1-2).


Last edited by LRN on Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

LRN
Tempest
Tempest

Posts : 68
Join date : 2011-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

Post  nicolbolas>jace on Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:19 pm

LRN wrote:
1) When you have 5 wisps
2) When you have 14 wisps
3-6) After you get your 30th wisp

er..... you realize i did all of this on the official forums lol... well, i guess its nice to have people who are willing to do this.

and yeah, this is all spot on.

LRN wrote:
1) When you have 4 wisps
2) When you have 6 wisps
3) When you have 13 wisps
4) When you have 11 wisps (yes, it's less than 13, because this upgrades gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)
5) When you have 15 wisps
6) When you have 12 wisps (yes, it's less than 15, because this upgrades gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)

this makes no sense-- the best "harvesting speed increase" is when you get the lumber upgrades at optimal time. maybe explain this a bit better? (though i might not get it because i am interpreting it as you seeing that is for best lumber gathering speed)
avatar
nicolbolas>jace
Team Member

Posts : 35
Join date : 2011-03-20
Age : 102
Location : moraga, california

Back to top Go down

Re: Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

Post  LRN on Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:10 pm

nicolbolas>jace wrote:
LRN wrote:
1) When you have 4 wisps
2) When you have 6 wisps
3) When you have 13 wisps
4) When you have 11 wisps (yes, it's less than 13, because this upgrades gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)
5) When you have 15 wisps
6) When you have 12 wisps (yes, it's less than 15, because this upgrades gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)

this makes no sense-- the best "harvesting speed increase" is when you get the lumber upgrades at optimal time. maybe explain this a bit better? (though i might not get it because i am interpreting it as you seeing that is for best lumber gathering speed)
Just look at the table. There are moments when buying another upgrade will give you more LPS than buying another wisp.
Of course, this doesn't make any REAL sense, since upgrades 3-6 just cost too much, it's always more profitable to buy 2-3-4 wisps instead of paying 200-340-410 for an upgrade.
Also, wisps take less time (the table doesn't take the time into account too) to train (even when you train 2-3-4 of them), and they will start to work for you right away, while upgrade is still...upgrading..., doing nothing useful until it is finished.
So yeah, this doesn't make any sense. 5-14-30 thresholds are the way to go.

As far as a balance discussion goes, it might be a good idea to make lumber upgrades faster. Or instantaneous (like the King upgrades).

LRN
Tempest
Tempest

Posts : 68
Join date : 2011-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

Post  nicolbolas>jace on Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:14 am

LRN wrote:
nicolbolas>jace wrote:
LRN wrote:
1) When you have 4 wisps
2) When you have 6 wisps
3) When you have 13 wisps
4) When you have 11 wisps (yes, it's less than 13, because this upgrades gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)
5) When you have 15 wisps
6) When you have 12 wisps (yes, it's less than 15, because this upgrades gives you +0.04 LPS instead of 0.03 LPS!)

this makes no sense-- the best "harvesting speed increase" is when you get the lumber upgrades at optimal time. maybe explain this a bit better? (though i might not get it because i am interpreting it as you seeing that is for best lumber gathering speed)
Just look at the table. There are moments when buying another upgrade will give you more LPS than buying another wisp.
Of course, this doesn't make any REAL sense, since upgrades 3-6 just cost too much, it's always more profitable to buy 2-3-4 wisps instead of paying 200-340-410 for an upgrade.
Also, wisps take less time (the table doesn't take the time into account too) to train (even when you train 2-3-4 of them), and they will start to work for you right away, while upgrade is still...upgrading..., doing nothing useful until it is finished.
So yeah, this doesn't make any sense. 5-14-30 thresholds are the way to go.

As far as a balance discussion goes, it might be a good idea to make lumber upgrades faster. Or instantaneous (like the King upgrades).

... so take the first part out... it has nothing to do with harvesting speed as a whole....?
avatar
nicolbolas>jace
Team Member

Posts : 35
Join date : 2011-03-20
Age : 102
Location : moraga, california

Back to top Go down

Re: Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

Post  LRN on Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:22 am

Why should i take parts out of research and discussion?

LRN
Tempest
Tempest

Posts : 68
Join date : 2011-07-30

Back to top Go down

Re: Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

Post  von_Oberstain on Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:01 am

nice analysis!

true, it was done on official forum, but not all members here know about it, and it was inconclusive anyway (for me, at least, though i participated until the end).

main problem remaining in that old discussion was:
- wisps are not upgraded/produced consequently and with unlimited resources
- so if, for instance, player lacks 130g for upgrade in right time, he may opt to build another wisp and spend rest on army. if game goes wrong, people often produce wisps because they're in need for army
- alternatively, people can opt to invest in upgrade earlier, and not produce wisps for critical period (14-17, for example)

later wisps upgrades are of limited use only in extreme situations (people having 30/3 on 23 or such), -40 level games and so on...

my personal preference was changing upgrade costs to something more sensible, but whole thing was postponed for the time map actually gets a fanbase, and that system relying on 6/13/29/never is faulty by design. luckily, upgrade cost/time is very easy to change, simple change to 50/100/150g would make more sense, maybe incremental increase should be even lower.

and for a first argumented discussion (and lovely use of spreadsheet, which i'm very fond of), you're given 'respected' status (nick already got one)

off topic:
nick, tomorrow (evening for qay and me, morning for you and isha), we planned 1.0a2 balance discussion. you're being off skype, so please log in tomorrow
[EDIT]: read, answered (by skype, but will send you and email, and deleted, as asked
avatar
von_Oberstain
Admin
Admin

Posts : 168
Join date : 2010-11-04
Age : 242
Location : Lugb├║rz, Mordor

Back to top Go down

Re: Lumber upgrade or a wisp?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum