some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

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some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  twisteD on Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:28 am

-Change the terrain of the arena battle, because when the enemy is standing on the higher level your ranged units will miss thanks to the wc3 mechanic. Beside this, try to create a real big arena, because after level 20 with 4vs4 the units have problems to get to the enemy. When you dont want to or cannot do it, then try at least to teleport the units in a way that the tanks stand in front and the ranged units at the back.
-You are creating a lot new races, but you forget to balance the old ones. There are quite a few that have no real chance to survive lvl 25+. It is annoying to play only 1-2 races, because the others suck. It would be cool to have all of the races balanced so random would make fun and every game becomes a new experience.
Element:
This Race got the Mana reg aura and yet it has no unit that consumes mana. This makes absolutely no sense. The only usable tower are the messiah and maybe the Fenix. Everything else there is garbage.
Mech:
The veteran is really bullshit, because it has no real skill. The update of the ent has at least entangle. Make a skill, that he can deflect x% of ranged attacks.

Pls correct the fact, when you change builder, that you do not get the old worker again to choose from. It is so stupid, when you do not really have a option.

(i hope its possible to understand, bcuz of bad english)
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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  mortilus on Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:01 am

Fenix use mana, and in fact require a messiah to be worth their gold cost. I agree though, they should have more mana-consuming units. However, keep in mind that "adding/changing units" and "keeping game balanced" are mutually opposing forces, if he adds units/abilities to element they might well become unbalanced

Pls correct the fact, when you change builder, that you do not get the old worker again to choose from. It is so stupid, when you do not really have a option.
If i understand you, if you are element (for example) and change builder, you want it such that element is guaranteed to not appear as one of the possible races

The veteran is really bullshit, because it has no real skill. The update of the ent has at least entangle. Make a skill, that he can deflect x% of ranged attacks.
In my opinion, the tier1 & 2 units of all races need to be upgradable at least 3-4 times, and i'm going to try and come up with options for HuanAk about this.

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  HuanAk on Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:55 pm

twisteD wrote:-Change the terrain of the arena battle, because when the enemy is standing on the higher level your ranged units will miss thanks to the wc3 mechanic. Beside this, try to create a real big arena, because after level 20 with 4vs4 the units have problems to get to the enemy. When you dont want to or cannot do it, then try at least to teleport the units in a way that the tanks stand in front and the ranged units at the back.
-You are creating a lot new races, but you forget to balance the old ones. There are quite a few that have no real chance to survive lvl 25+. It is annoying to play only 1-2 races, because the others suck. It would be cool to have all of the races balanced so random would make fun and every game becomes a new experience.

you can't be too serious about arena, it is just a mass fight for laugh.

Now, go and find me any game with with 100% balance.

like what you said, if all race can survive up to lvl25, then the game is "enough" balance.

the last 5 level is not easy and remember if you have any wrong damage/armor, it mean 20% difference.

that mean : you can't make it 100% balance, unless all lvl25+ become Chaos damage / unarmored.

as for other race, it is up to player who want to play more challenge. if you pick the best race, then it is your choice, I also give you option to change builder as well.


Element:
This Race got the Mana reg aura and yet it has no unit that consumes mana. This makes absolutely no sense. The only usable tower are the messiah and maybe the Fenix. Everything else there is garbage.

Mana regen aura is the most OP aura in the game, there are not aura that give +300-500% buffed.

if you don't understand this, try discussion with other.



Mech:
The veteran is really bullshit, because it has no real skill. The update of the ent has at least entangle. Make a skill, that he can deflect x% of ranged attacks.
This is bullshit, first you ask me to balance old race. now you want to buff the most powerful race.



Pls correct the fact, when you change builder, that you do not get the old worker again to choose from. It is so stupid, when you do not really have a option.

don't post like this unless you are 100% sure. (you can try single player to find the fact)

My change builder is one of smertest code :
- it is total random
- you won't get 2 pages like other version


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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  twisteD on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:09 pm

@Mortilus

Fenix use mana, and in fact require a messiah to be worth their gold cost.
Fenix does not consume mana. So when element is fighting they do not need the mana aura unless the fenix is attacked. If you look at the range of the fenix it wont be attacked unless the tanks are powned. So the messiah is a waste, although the aura is really nice.

I agree though, they should have more mana-consuming units. However, keep in mind that "adding/changing units" and "keeping game balanced" are mutually opposing forces, if he adds units/abilities to element they might well become unbalanced
I agree, but the main problem is that you most likely use only a few towers. This makes the game somewhat dull. When every race has several ways for playing to the top, then you do not really fear random.

If i understand you, if you are element (for example) and change builder, you want it such that element is guaranteed to not appear as one of the possible races
Why do you understand me and the map maker only feels a personal attack from it. I mean, when I am element and change builder, I often get to choose from either element or another race. That is so stupid. This has to be fixed. Besides this, remove the possibility to get prophet, because it is really unfair if someone gets it after already changing his builder 4times. Or try to save the amount of builder changes for the re rolling.

@HuanAk

you can't be too serious about arena, it is just a mass fight for laugh.
I am taking this map as your hard work serious. So I try to tell you what is lacking and what is good.
The problem with balance is that there are so many influences in this game that it is not possible to create “100%” balance.

the last 5 level is not easy and remember if you have any wrong damage/armor, it mean 20% difference.

that mean : you can't make it 100% balance, unless all lvl25+ become Chaos damage / unarmored.
You do not have to change those levels. Just make it possible that every race has more than 1 tank(armor). This will make it possible for you to always have a decent defense and when you also have a variation on several attack types you can take the units down before they get you.

as for other race, it is up to player who want to play more challenge. if you pick the best race, then it is your choice, I also give you option to change builder as well.
You do not get the point here. I do want to have a challenge, because every game is a set of players and their skills. I hate it, when I can play blindfolded with one race, because one build is guaranteeing my no leak strategy and with other races I always have to think, what can help me and what not.

Mana regen aura is the most OP aura in the game, there are not aura that give +300-500% buffed.

if you don't understand this, try discussion with other.
If I do not possess a Unit that consumes mana therefore regenerates mana faster it is a really worthless aura. I agree that some units really become nice combined with this aura, but that is the problem. Some units are maybe too good with this aura, but there are some races that do not get a benefit from it.

This is bullshit, first you ask me to balance old race. now you want to buff the most powerful race.
I disagree here that mech is the most powerful race. Give me your strategy guide to prove me wrong. I think mech nice but not the most powerful race.

don't post like this unless you are 100% sure. (you can try single player to find the fact)
Like I explained before. I am taking you serious and therefore I explain things I have experienced many times.
Thanks for your appreciation
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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  shengshun on Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:58 am

chill out man...

don't be so arrogant and demanding..

its not really that easy to fix it or "balance" it.. even the best wc3 rpg maps are unbalanced..

I followed the map from 3.3 til the latest map 3.41 beta2... and I've witness how he changed and upgrade the map without regular beta testers... that's why he's releasing public beta maps..

what do you want more for a free game.. Cool

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  NERV on Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:51 am

twisteD wrote:
-Change the terrain of the arena battle, because when the enemy is standing on the higher level your ranged units will miss thanks to the wc3 mechanic. Beside this, try to create a real big arena, because after level 20 with 4vs4 the units have problems to get to the enemy. When you dont want to or cannot do it, then try at least to teleport the units in a way that the tanks stand in front and the ranged units at the back.

I agree with that, the arena is just too fancy atm.

twisteD wrote:
-You are creating a lot new races, but you forget to balance the old ones. There are quite a few that have no real chance to survive lvl 25+. It is annoying to play only 1-2 races, because the others suck. It would be cool to have all of the races balanced so random would make fun and every game becomes a new experience.
Element:
This Race got the Mana reg aura and yet it has no unit that consumes mana. This makes absolutely no sense. The only usable tower are the messiah and maybe the Fenix. Everything else there is garbage.
Mech:
The veteran is really bullshit, because it has no real skill. The update of the ent has at least entangle. Make a skill, that he can deflect x% of ranged attacks.
thats bananas.
Element and Mech are the one of the strongest races end game. Also, most races are possible to get to lv30, you just need to know how they work.

Mech *****
Element *****
Shadow ****
Nature *****
Goblin *****
Elf ****
Beast ***
Ghost ****
Marine ****
Arctic Been a while since i played those races, but i guess arctic used to be better. but still possible to get to lv 30, due to slow.
Undead not sure.
Paladin ***
Orc *****

twisteD wrote:
Pls correct the fact, when you change builder, that you do not get the old worker again to choose from. It is so stupid, when you do not really have a option.

Change builder is a gamble, Imo it should stay as it is, because its too op.


Last edited by NERV on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  kolia1 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:29 am

Actually I think every decent player that does abit of lumbering can clear up to level 30, yes you do have minor-major leaks but lumbering gives you income and thats what make you stronger in the later rounds! Every race can survive until 30, and beat 30!

I do agree that mana regen is the best aura is this game, well, pheonix are actually tankers, they do very fine at 10-20 tanking, i think pheonix have around 10-15 mana regen per second on their own, along with messiah's mana regen aura 5% which amounts up to 17.5 mana per second, eg. pheonix have 12.5 mana regen makes it total of 30 mana per second, and the ability mana shield pheonix have blocks 4 damage for 1 point of mana, means 120 damage is blocked per second and it also means effective 120 health per second.


Changing builder IS a gamble! You already got the extra option of choosing ANOTHER builder, what more can you ask?! play AP and choose the one you want and stick with it! Get score and soon be the Master of (whatever you choose)!


As for arena.. Maybe making all units no collision? Just for arena... Either that or just leave it as it is... units will get blocked by other allied units and not able to help during the arena and this is something we all know will happen!!! This is a team game, build both land and air units so they can fight side by side! If no one wants to build air, then get stucked by yourself, its you!!!



HuanAK, please give every unit a skill, no matter how lame it is lol. Units without skill are like useless! To units like Adept, colt.. they are really underused, they are very sad that no players build them, and even if they does, not upgraded, they are neglected and main purpose is to see how useless they are or to tank some big ass mob that almost instantly kill them with their ass.

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  HuanAk on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:20 am

kolia1 wrote:
As for arena.. Maybe making all units no collision? Just for arena... Either that or just leave it as it is... units will get blocked by other allied units and not able to help during the arena and this is something we all know will happen!!! This is a team game, build both land and air units so they can fight side by side! If no one wants to build air, then get stucked by yourself, its you!!!

I turn off collision before, and my tester report: Splash/AE OWN !!

kolia1 wrote:
HuanAK, please give every unit a skill, no matter how lame it is lol. Units without skill are like useless! To units like Adept, colt.. they are really underused, they are very sad that no players build them, and even if they does, not upgraded, they are neglected and main purpose is to see how useless they are or to tank some big ass mob that almost instantly kill them with their ass.

I think I run out ideas on ability.

this game have ~250 difference fighters. and I try avoid custom ability (avoid lag during fight), so most of ability should be auto cast by unit.

so it is better to leave Tier 1 & 2 without ability (because they are useless for X3 version anyway)


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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  VoiceInMind on Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:09 pm

Mana recharge for undead. Smth about replenish 25 mp for 50 mp. Or less, about 10. Needed to think a lot, i cant do it right now.
Up cost and params of murlocs. They r pretty good, just dies too fast at 10+. Noone noticed them, just eat away.
Change to freeze for arctic. 5% chance mb, like wolverines, with low dps. And ofc cost must be expensive.
Beast can summon 2 from 1 building. With stackable poison it must be fine.
Protons good enough, just a little more range. Anyway there is better units to build.
Shadow. Hm, may be "commander" version of chosen upgrade. More dmg for warrior, more atk speed for bowman and less mana cost for mindwarp for more usual usage.
Ghost good enough, nothing to change i think.
As Goblin's mines.
And demihuman.
Ents... Never used, dunno what to say.
Pewee... Same.

What did i miss?

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  kolia1 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:29 am

I always used goblin mines.. they are fine the way it is, maybe reduce cost on the higher levels? Mines 20 gold > 1 food 50 gold ( total 70 ) > 90 gold ( total 1 food 160 gold ) for 90 damage... and usually dies by range without causing anything Sad
ents upgrade > guardian are good against level 10 boss only.. they don seem to cast until they reach a certain hp.. i think.. they usually dies so fast in the later levels

HuanAK, you changes poison not able to kill units because some abilities are bugged and doesnt gets the bounty from the slain creep right? Beast was good with just harpies until you changes that! Anyway to change that? Sad Beast became one of the weakest race.... IMO

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  NERV on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:04 am

VoiceInMind wrote:
Shadow. Hm, may be "commander" version of chosen upgrade. More dmg for warrior, more atk speed for bowman and less mana cost for mindwarp for more usual usage.


less mana cost for mindwarp? your probbly crazy, thats perhaps the best skill in legion mega. Doppel ownz.

kolia1 wrote:
ents upgrade > guardian are good against level 10 boss only.. they don seem to cast until they reach a certain hp.. i think.. they usually dies so fast in the later levels

They suck, sometimes they die without using entangle. ):
also, their dmg/hp is really low, if you compare to clockwork from goblin.
Would be nice if Huan increase the cost of their upgrade and give 'em like 100+hp/20+dps( something like that, since when they use entangle they are really good.).

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  HuanAk on Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:04 pm

kolia1 wrote:I always used goblin mines.. they are fine the way it is, maybe reduce cost on the higher levels? Mines 20 gold > 1 food 50 gold ( total 70 ) > 90 gold ( total 1 food 160 gold ) for 90 damage... and usually dies by range without causing anything Sad
ents upgrade > guardian are good against level 10 boss only.. they don seem to cast until they reach a certain hp.. i think.. they usually dies so fast in the later levels

HuanAK, you changes poison not able to kill units because some abilities are bugged and doesnt gets the bounty from the slain creep right? Beast was good with just harpies until you changes that! Anyway to change that? Sad Beast became one of the weakest race.... IMO

you won't get bounty if the harpy die and corpse gone.

this is fine in earlier version because poison won't last that long (and corpse take 6-7 second to decay)

now, I add the code to remove corpse after 1 second (to reduce lag), so it won't give gold if creep die after corpse gone.

this poison thing shouldn't cause that much difference. beast is weaker because those new spawn system make splash more uselss.

anyway, splash is slightly stronger when I release final version.

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  zXcongducXz on Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:51 pm

lol stupid HuanAk makes the game worse
Zeus don't deal spell dmg even its 10 mana

Don't make the game stupid as you are

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  VoiceInMind on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:28 pm

less mana cost for mindwarp? your probbly crazy, thats perhaps the best skill in legion mega. Doppel ownz.

They dnt use it on melee units. No, ofc use, but badly a lot. For example: 7 doppels, 7 skeletal mages, 2 statues, tested on 3 lvls (17-19). Just once single doppel was mindwarped. Test 2: 7 dopples, troll warrior, 4 harpies, 8 skeletal mages, smth about 12-13 other ranged units. 21-28 lvls, again doppel buff one time for all theese lvls. Even with messiah they buff other skeletal mage. Or hapies and statues. Wolverines crits is more usual then melee unit mindwarped.

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  HuanAk on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:48 pm

zXcongducXz wrote:lol stupid HuanAk makes the game worse
Zeus don't deal spell dmg even its 10 mana

Don't make the game stupid as you are

don't post like this, it will make you look stupid.

try be nice if you want to report any bug.

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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  NERV on Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:14 am

VoiceInMind wrote:
less mana cost for mindwarp? your probbly crazy, thats perhaps the best skill in legion mega. Doppel ownz.

They dnt use it on melee units. No, ofc use, but badly a lot. For example: 7 doppels, 7 skeletal mages, 2 statues, tested on 3 lvls (17-19). Just once single doppel was mindwarped. Test 2: 7 dopples, troll warrior, 4 harpies, 8 skeletal mages, smth about 12-13 other ranged units. 21-28 lvls, again doppel buff one time for all theese lvls. Even with messiah they buff other skeletal mage. Or hapies and statues. Wolverines crits is more usual then melee unit mindwarped.


hmm, i'm fine with em. just build em right behind the doppel and everything is going to be alright, also you need one for each doppelganger you have.

like this:
- D -
- M -

when i get shadow, i always build doppel with mages behind their back and I never had a problem with doppel didn't get buffed by mages, even late game. Also i build the life steals and I used to build some lord of death/hades, but not anymore.
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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  HuanAk on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:30 am


I think unit cloest to skeletal mages *usually* have higher chance to get this buff.

if you can choose which target for mindwarped, then it will nerfed.

similar to Mech's aura, they have one of the best aura but they it is melee.
Goblin's telescope is good aura, but helicopter have relative short range
Shadow's lifesteal aura is good, but they have high priority (creep may attack them first if they are same range as melee fighter)
Element's mana aura is good, but there are cooldown to set the limit.




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Re: some ideas for upcoming version (fixes only)

Post  VoiceInMind on Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:24 pm

like this:
- D -
- M -
1st test:
Overseer, Keeper of Souls.
- D D D D D D D -
- M M M M M M M -
- - - K - O - - -

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