LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

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LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:24 am

in shortest, after success (at garena, at least) of X1-only versions 1 and 2 of UE (based on 2.7 code), a new platform is nearly ready. it is called LegionTD Pro, and can be downloaded from link bellow:

no detailed changelog so far, but differences from UE platform:
- 2 races (corrupted nature, chaos)
- lag IS decreased
- 7-tier hybrid
- better arena ending
- many, many bugs and balance problems fixed

LegionTD Pro A8a (fixed random builder bug):
http://ifile.it/r0ng1wt

changelog to alpha7:
- balance fixes for corrupted nature and chaos
- other bugfixes

it will be appreciated if imbalances/bugs are posted on forum.


Last edited by von_Oberstain on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:15 am; edited 7 times in total
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Host Bot

Post  IH4teYou on Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:19 am

So SttF Will Be Hosting the ^ Version soon. Bot Name: SttF-Hosting9

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Major Bugs

Post  IH4teYou on Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:30 pm

So I've barely tested this with a few games and I have found multiple problems that need to be addressed.

The new modes needed to be added on the list.
When tb is input it shows up as db
Beast requires oberst tower while others races don't
Corrupted nature tier 1 unit cost food and money but disappears after the wave starts. ( And cannot be sold - GIant waste of space)
When you have one of the new races the image shows up as a green square.
Almost all the new builders lowered tiered units disappear ! Wtf I am wasting my time trying to learn this.
You cannot sell it's just there as scenery and cannot sell for money back GG.
The sell button is broken with the new races
Now that the antistuck has mana its regen needs to be increased because if your using one builder and everyone tries to antistuck it will take a million years or so (figuratively speaking)
Corrupted builder - Tier 6 unit increase max health over time WTF?


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Killing me smalls

Post  IH4teYou on Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:58 pm

Descriptions are jacked up
Wave 6 is apparently harder than it was before
Pretty Lengthy Pause at the beginning
Chaos Shaper pairing up on tb is usually accompanied with Blood Orc - Not a bug just saying it's got some pretty high counts
Blue can see all of team 2's incomes/Values/Wisps/Kills (modes were tbmmhgggns40x3) shows up as dbmmhgggns40x3
Blood orc Kodo beast Burning body doesn't have the immolation effect although it says it in the description and shows up as an ability
Goblins also need Oberst Tower
Unit pathing will go to the other side for no reason at all and steal kills
Uncreated (chaos shaper - tier 5 ) has an ungodly op ass immolation
Wave 6 pwns like everything now
Units will move to a remote place and not do a damn thing


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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:56 am

thank you for input!

just to be clear, we're talking about LegionX3 Revolution, right?

i'll see into your comments (some of things are already fixed in current (home) build)

longer wait at begging is a tradeoff to reduce lags later
oberst towers - i thought i removed them all, some must slipped - will fix
uncreated ability is changed - looked like it will be problem in X3 (not so much in x1), but whole map is... well, alpha
disappearing towers - my bad, will fix
pathing - wider lanes have disadvantages too - a long range unit in the middle attracts creeps more easily, i think

anyhow, there will be fixed alpha version tomorrow, thank you for testing and input. don't hesitate to add more
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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  IH4teYou on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:15 am

We will be hosting it will get you feedback as soon as we realize the problems.

Can You post the link here sttfmultigaming.tk

So that we can autohost asap.


Last edited by IH4teYou on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:37 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  IH4teYou on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:17 am

So I also stole yellows unit somehow on tbmmhggg40x3?
Apparently you can upgrade a death owl to another death owl?
Seriously wave 6 is harder than wave 7 because almost every game fails at 6 now.
The builders have buy for less than it sells major infinite money. i.e. Druid sells for more than it cost

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:12 pm

first alpha has some region issues, which are identified and fixed later, in current work version, for example. this version will probably be released later today

also, keep in mind that positioning causes steals in 90% cases, for example any ranged unit one red/blue lane is MUCH safer when built on LEFT side of lane, than it is on the right/middle (same applies on all lanes, ranged towers should be on opposite sides from creep turning side.
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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  Wegenbarth on Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:54 am

Greetings.

How is it going? How long will it take till there is a "fixed" version out?

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:22 pm

if i say 'today', would you believe me? probably no and rightfully so.

now the question is if you ask about Pro or Revo? i'll upload latest Pro (alpha6, sigh) right now. you can look at first post.

if you referring to Revo, there are couple of additional things to do - nothing major (may be even tonight, but never believe me on deadlines)

what i really need is feedback on balance, ok 2nd t6upg isn't released yet but how about t1/t2 changes? some are left unchanged, to be precise ones with cheap upgrade (hatch/swamp), some may be overpowered on start (ranger), but players opinions - NONE

i'm aware that -db and -tb modes kinda even it out, but balance is still a crucial issue, to me at least, an so much is changed that's impossible that new balance flaws are made. but, almost no feedback?!

that's main reason why Revo is in alpha2 stage and Pro in alpha6 - Pro had much more feedback (or 'feedself', cause most of it came from lan games played by me and my friends)

BACK TO THE TOPIC: it's 99% done. REVO alpha3. release time is 'soon'. i expect bugs and disbalances, so (IF SOMEONE DECIDES TO REPORT THEM) there can be quick-fix soon (Revo) or fix directly to beta (Pro, it had enough testing to be called alpha already)
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Rise International

Post  IH4teYou on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:04 am

We have moved our clans, We are currently having technical issues but if you since you are the editor of LegionTD Revo. By all means would you please post your updated maps as released onto riseinternational.tk ? We will be officially hosting your map and with it you will be getting feedback from the players via to our forums or from one of our admins. It would be greatly appreciated. Works both ways. Consider it or ignore it.

And Ya I would report them, but as you know I don't always have the patience to find every bug in the map and as you know there are many exploits as buying druid for whatever amount of gold and selling it for more than it is worth. I would ban but that would involve a large amount of LegionTD players who are testing your map. So, having your input and getting updates on a regular basis would greatly help. It would help on your part too.

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  LRN on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:22 am

Also, i would advise to "release early, release often". This is doubly true for critical bugs (exploits, non-working units, etc). Balancing is highly subjective and can wait. Fixes can't.

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  Wegenbarth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:37 pm

It is just me or is the difficulty in the alpha version way higher, even in early levels?
Esp the Acolyte wave seems to be impossible with the recommendedmax value.

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The version is flawed

Post  JediMindaugas on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:18 am

Greeting to all who care to read,
As an old school LegionTD player, I was glad to find out that the map is not totaly dead...yet. My server is plagued by that damned Mega version of which I don't approve, but recently some autobot started hosting these prox1 versions and it got me intrigued. I didn't play it too much yet, but from what I've seen, it has a LOT of polishing to do.
So a few notes I wanted to discuss:
1. What's with the lane expansion? I do realise that it is necessary while playing -40 mode, but wasn't it possible to make the lane width differ with modes? Well anyway, it is something that is mainly just a disturbance to your regular build.
2. Default modes. Now it is not as if I was against the -apmmhg30, but being unable NOT to select mm and hg is broken. If red actualy types commands, nothing else should be added. What if I wanted to play -ar mode with my friends without master mind?
3. Tooltips. Oh the horror. I won't even begin to describe it. You might argue that it does not affect the gameplay, but it DOES affect popularity. Nothing breaks the spirit more than an empty buff description. How am I supposed to know how the chaos units work? Not to mention countless other minor visual flaws like mana on a unit that does not use it, wrong armor and attack type descriptions etc.

I could make a long list if I knew it would be looked into.

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:30 am

well, actual LIST of missing tooltips, wrong shortcuts etc, would be appreciated, much more than stating there are some (game having effectively 800 units, several hundreds of icons/descriptions etc is doomed to always have some problems with them)

-mm is NOT default mode, and never will be
-hg, however is, but it is still left as possibility to be typed manually, in order not to break mode-string - many people still type for the force of habit. so, EVERY game is -HG, regardless if it is typed at start or not
- mana on units that don't use it - well, i'll argue with this one, since *some* of units do have mana and indeed not use it, but their mana state is used for something different, eg. as a marker of spell being casted on particular unit, or their number (funny, i thought it was pretty clever way to mark them, which people won't mind). of course, somewhere it's just bug, or developing leftover - it's still alpha version, after all, and some abilities were changed or disabled temporary

lane widening was kinda needed, not only for -40 mode (i don't know if anybody actually plays it, my preference is not to have it on). the development team (kinda inactive now, it's mostly me at the moment) agreed on lane widening and they were/are all excellent players (modestly, i'll call myself only 'good' Smile ) - as i see it, it's not inferior to original lanes, just... different. it also allows more liberate positioning and having space between units with large collision size and melee range, which sometimes circle around wasting time, no matter how good at positioning one is

probably definitions of 'polished' differs, mine is that game is meticulously polished over exceedingly long period of time (over 2 years now, map was previously called Unofficial Expansion, or UE, thousands of games were played on garena) - regarding balance (adding or reducing stats often by very small amount, removing massing-strategies without crippling races (elves, for instance), etc. but graphically - well, true, it is not so...

@Wegenbarth
it's probably personal, waves are exactly like in 1.6b - until 23rd and after, where wave strength is somewhat increased (let's face it, EXACT same unit composition for 22nd always passed 23rd, same applying for 24th and 25th - 24th is still the same as in 1.6b, or *slightly* stronger, i would have to check on that)

thanks for the feedback, and keep in mind that map is still listed as 'alpha' and sadly there is currently only me on development...
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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  JediMindaugas on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:40 am

The fact that my call was answeared gives me hope. I will get on it.
p.s. just so that i don't forget to ask, what the are those Knight of blade blessings?

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:37 pm

well, believe it or not, map is being worked on Smile not on THIS WEEKEND, ofc, since this is Diablo3 open beta weekend, but server is keeping falling down, so...

fact is that whole transition to "new platform" - which includes terrain change (lanes and new arena), as well as lots of work on triggers to make them faster than in 1.6b, is taking majority of time. 2 new races are added more like "in spare time", since actual adding of them took less than 2 weeks of normal work, while other stuff took... more. much more. but when the work on platform is finished, adding things like bunch of races or new barracks will come rather quickly, compared to this platform-dragging that takes forever. there is a big project regarding races and few exciting new modes regarding them, but more of it later...

oh, as an old player and primary balancer/tester (rather than map editor, which comes as a kinda problem to me), i can ASSURE all old, hard-core fans of 1.6b (well, rather 1.42 when we are at it, the good times when it was people's map, meaning everyone could host it as custom game without having 100mbit upload) that:
- it WON'T become some LTD ALL-STARS with 100+ races - set maximum is 20, with some kind of... choice (great racial plan mentioned earlier)
- any new barracks will contain only unique-use summons, not just massing 1000+ lumber juggernauts (fact is, some of useless ones from elite are to being scrapped, since presently they serve no real purpose, except to allow +50 lumber steady increase - fully unneeded for high worker count (oh, this also can happen to some races, if proven to be "too generic")
- NO mass-release of races will ever happen, they need to be balanced first (at least to the point that they are some 5-10% stronger than other at the release time, while people learn to play them, and nerfed later to normal strength - basically same as were marine and elves, imba as hell at release, nerfed later)

as for game messages, well - my wish (something i would much rather do than fixing bugs and optimizing slow code) is to make LTD environment more lively - eg. units will (hopefully) have AI-based "conversations" during build-phase, supposedly funny and/or atmospheric (coding AI talk is something that i was actually good back... well, very long time ago). so, corrupted nature and chaos have limited amount of in-fight messages, just for people to get used to it)... anyway, game is supposed to have its lore, playing manual and detailed unit/abilities descriptions (in manual), to a much greater extent than any tooltip can provide. you may notice that i would rather do anything map-related than what i'm forced to do now Sad

anyhow 'knight of swords' is a prince of chaos, who doesn't take kindly killing his chosen units (ones wearing stygmata) - every 5 seconds he curses them with cripple variation -15% msps and -50% atsp (i think), lasting for 3 seconds (1 or 1.5 for bosses, i would have to check for exact numbers, writing from memory now, while D3-server is down again). so, there are consequences of killing chaos-chosen, not so much visible on leech/voormis, but should work much better on tribunes. it also causes lvl20 bosses who faces chaos army to arrive later at king (if it passes), making this one of a less-visible chaos advantages...

btw, what do you think of new races? except for obvious corrupted nature growth bug, which is fixed in soon-to-be-released Pro A7 and Revo A3 (in which nature is nerfed a bit and chaos starting units are buffed, making incoming easier - since chaos is designed to have less useful tier5 and 6 basic than other races, and have to upgrade those pretty much immediately - which, of course, people doesn't notice and complain all the time, not realizing its a feature Smile )?
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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  JediMindaugas on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:35 am

Ok so checked it, -mm is not defaulted, my mistake. Mixed up with -hg.
Last updated: 2012-04-27.
Here is a list by races and tiers of the most OBVIOUS flaws.

To be resolved issues in GREEN.
Still a question in RED.
General:
  • If red manages to type the modes too early, everyone might end up with 0 gold. This is probably some remains of the x3 mode, where the god i given only after the commands have been typed. However in x1 only map, all players should start with 100g.

Spoiler:
von_Oberstain wrote:
- hmmmm, 0 gold, never happen to me. it's also not connected with x3, since in x3 there is additional 200g given on x3 mode initialization, rather than removing gold and giving it again
  • Sometimes you fail to get a random race and end up having a question mark as a builder, which obviously has nothing to build.

Spoiler:
von_Oberstain wrote:
- question mark problem is fixed in unreleased A7
  • Every single new unit has precise damage like 50-50 instead of the usual 45-55. Either make it all precise or variate the new ones. This goes extra for chaos (duh, chaotic!).

Spoiler:
von_Oberstain wrote:
- new units indeed DO have exact damage, to make balancing easier and luck-independent. in later phases, they would get +-range, centered on present value
  • What is at the very top of the map? Some weird row with portals. I would assume it was the fighting ground, but the one time the game lasted to level 31, this happened in the very middle.

Spoiler:
von_Oberstain wrote:
- top of the map is arena. maybe it's too big, but it is changed:
a. now, melee units always spawn in front of flyers and ranged
b. basic movement speed is changed
c. bit of a long way units walk is used that they make some kind of frontline, consisting of melee units, and backline, consisting of ranged ones. it actually doesn't work too bad, although old legion lord ending will be returning as optional at some point. oh, there is also some kind of compensation for the team with less players in arena, they get an armour bonus, calculated to improve fighting ability to 85% of other team (100% would be unfair, in my opinion at least, while having 1v2 with large armour bonus on 1-player team allows solo player to actually win, if army carried over is sufficiently big. before, 1v2, not to mention 1v4 was an auto-lose)
  • The trees near every harvesting place should be expanded and wisp should be seen there. For now, it is just some useless empty space.

  • The game might be too easy early due to the increased lumber gathering rate. On the other hand, the game never lasted past level 24 in alpha6.

Spoiler:
von_Oberstain wrote:true enough, but we saw no point in replicating faults of earlier system - eg. workers over 25-27 being unusable, collision problems and uneven idle time for workers (though old wc3 cheat with manual 'return resources' instead regular one was still working, evening things a bit), not to mention large lag caused by 100+ workers. small difference does exist, but it's hardly noticeable till ~20, so we opted at the time to keep waves identical until 23rd and increase wave strength afterwards. lumbering is also bit nerfed due to increasing warrior income to +3, which generally stops 2nd wisp at lvl1 builds and make it riskier to produce 2nd wisp immediately after 1st level - slightly nerfed warrior (bash 25%->15%) with +3 income can break most 100g builds at lvl2 and makes game more equal (in lumbering terms) for all races at beginning.

only thing i do miss from 1.6b system is ability to order ALL workers to return lumber and allow sending more costly summon. new system is purely calculation-based and makes such intervention harder to do (though not impossible, i think).
  • Return the basic unit descriptions. It added some sort of lore to the game, makes it more lively.

Spoiler:
von_Oberstain wrote:
this way tooltips will take considerably less space, and will allow some kind of description/lore to be added. it's on "to-do" list for a long time now, hope it will be ready for release...
  • Inconsistent unit upgrade and ability places. For example captain's upgrade is on the bottom left corner, while peewee has it on the top top left!

  • All old units lack dps description, which can be found in new races.

Added on 2012-04-24 12:15
  • All Elite barrack units have the exact same sound of Kraken.


Mech
T1
  • Suggested models-militia for peewee, current peewee model for soldier.
  • Incorrect Soldier upgrade damage description - Written 66, true 65.
  • Incorrect Veteran upgrade damage description - Written 82, true 83-94.
  • Incorrect Veteran upgrade ability description - Written in Orange, should be Gray.

T2
  • Incorrect Infantry upgrade ability description - Written in Orange, should be Gray.
  • Incorrect Infantry upgrade damage description - Written 46, true 39-46.
  • Incorrect Zeus upgrade damage description - Written 15, true 16-18.
  • Zeus Power Surge ability description has some empty space at the end.
  • Incorrect Pyro upgrade damage description - Written 47, true 48-52.
  • Storm trooper Overload ability description has some empty space at the end and does not mention that it gains one mana on every hit.

T3
  • Incorrect Captain upgrade damage description - Written 59, true 60-72.
  • Incorrect Admiral upgrade damage description - Written 152, true 153-173.

T4
  • Incorrect Tempest upgrade damage description - Written 29, true 38-52.
  • Incorrect Leviathan upgrade damage description - Written 260, true 263-305.
  • Incorrect Leviathan upgrade ability description - Written Shrapnel, true - Electric Storm.
  • Leviathan does not attack while using Electric Storm.
  • Leviathan Electric Storm description last words are in green, was that intentional?

T5
  • Incorrect Cyborgh upgrade damage description - Written 119, true 121-135.
  • Incorrect Krogoth upgrade damage description - Written 154, true 156-164.
  • Incorrect Krogoth upgrade ability description - Written Vital Strike, true - Vital Slice.

T6
  • Incorrect Neotank upgrade damage description - Written 137, true 139-155.
  • Incorrect Doomsday Machine upgrade damage description - Written 297, true 302-352.


Beast
T1
  • Incorrect Gnoll Warrior upgrade damage description - Written 5, true 6-7.
  • Incorrect Gnoll Savage upgrade damage description - Written 33, true 34-38.

T2
  • Incorrect Ogre Basher upgrade damage description - Written 23, true 25-27.
  • Incorrect Ogre Pulverizer upgrade damage description - Written 78, true 85-107.

T3

  • Incorrect Harpy damage upgrade description - Written 24, true 25-28.
  • Incorrect Medusa damage upgrade description - Written 55, true 56-63.

T4

  • Incorrect Troll Fighter upgrade damage description - Written 46.5, true 45-46.
  • Incorrect Troll Champion upgrade damage description - Written 90, true 86-94.
  • Incorrect Troll Fighter ability description - Written in None, should be Adrenaline Increase.
  • Incorrect Troll Fighter and Troll Champion ability descriptions. Both claim to increase the unit attack speed AND move speed by 8%, but the tooltip claims to increase attack speed only and Troll Champion aura has a greater effect. Also, both Adrenaline Increase and Adrenaline Rush claim not to stack with Adrenaline Increase. In fact, these two auras do stack.

T5

  • Incorrect Grizzly upgrade damage description - Written 97, true 99-115.
  • Incorrect Greymane upgrade damage description - Written 159, true 161-181.

T6

  • Incorrect Spawn of Dragon upgrade damage description - Written 139, true 141-159.
  • Incorrect Dragon Aspect upgrade damage description - Written 229, true 232-247.


Added on 2012-04-24 12:15
Nature
T1
  • Incorrect Treant upgrade damage description - Written 10, true 11-13.
  • Incorrect Guardian upgrade damage description - Written 52, true 53-64.

T2
  • Incorrect Ranger upgrade damage description - Written 14, true 15-18.
  • Incorrect Ranger ability description. Written to affect air only, but in fact it works on all units.
  • Incorrect Meliai upgrade damage description - Written 46, true 47-52.

T3

  • Incorrect Sprite upgrade damage description - Written 19, true 20-25.
  • Incorrect T-bird upgrade damage description - Written 118, true 120-132.

T4

  • Incorrect Tree of Travel upgrade damage description - Written 73, true 74-82.
  • Incorrect Tree of Time upgrade damage description - Written 135, true 138-144.

T5

  • Incorrect Halfbreed upgrade damage description - Written 95, true 86-90.
  • Incorrect Goliath upgrade damage description - Written 109, true 111-131.

T6

  • Incorrect Yggdrasil upgrade damage description - Written 156, true 157-168.
  • Incorrect Tree of Life upgrade damage description - Written 46, true 301-334.
  • Incorrect Tree of Knowledge upgrade damage description - Written 270, true 266-274.


Added on 2012-04-27 13:34
Shadow
T1
  • Incorrect Bone Warrior upgrade damage description - Written 4, true 5-6.
  • Incorrect Fire Archer upgrade damage description - Written 11, true 12-14.
  • Incorrect Dark Mage upgrade damage description - Written 26, true 27-31.

T2
  • Incorrect Nightcrawler upgrade damage description - Written 27, true 31.
  • Incorrect Nightcrawler upgrade ability description. Written Sticky Webs, true Necromancy.
  • Necromancy is 2nd from the top left. Is the old ability still taking its place?

T3

  • Incorrect Gateguard upgrade damage description - Written 26, true 27-40.
  • Gateguard's name has two spaces(at least it looks like it).
  • Incorrect Harbringer upgrade damage description - Written 72, true 75-99.

T4

  • Incorrect Overseer upgrade damage description - Written 63, true 64-76.
  • Incorrect Keeper of Souls upgrade damage description - Written 117, true 120-132.

T5

  • Incorrect Nightmare upgrade damage description - Written 12, true 15-45.
  • Incorrect Doppelganger upgrade damage description - Written 13, true 15-37.

T6

  • Incorrect Lord of Death upgrade damage description - Written 34, true 35-45.
  • Incorrect Hades upgrade damage description - Written 59, true 70-80.


Added on 2012-04-27 13:52
Element
T1
  • Incorrect Proton upgrade damage description - Written 12, true 13.
  • Incorrect Proton upgrade ability description - Written in Orange, should be Gray.

T2
  • Incorrect Aqua Spirit upgrade damage description - Written 12, true 13-18.
  • Incorrect Oceanus upgrade damage description. Written 48, true 49-54.

T3

  • Incorrect Watcher upgrade damage description - Written 35, true 36-42.
  • Incorrect Violet upgrade damage description - Written 50, true 51-61.

T4

  • Incorrect Mudman upgrade damage description - Written 74, true 75-81.
  • Incorrect Golem upgrade damage description - Written 136, true 139-139.

T5

  • Incorrect Disciple upgrade damage description - Written 55, true 57-71.
  • Incorrect Messiah upgrade damage description - Written 117, true 119-125.

T6

  • Incorrect Seer of Darkness upgrade damage description - Written 125, true 127-141.
  • Incorrect Fenix upgrade damage description - Written 190, true 193-205.


Last edited by JediMindaugas on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:52 pm; edited 17 times in total (Reason for editing : Updating for Shadow)

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  A_MHE_HACCATb on Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 am

Excellent, JediMindaugas. I'm very lazy to do something like this. Sleep

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:14 pm

nope, this is exact type of feedback needed, with good organized list of flaws it is easy to fix problems...

- hmmmm, 0 gold, never happen to me. it's also not connected with x3, since in x3 there is additional 200g given on x3 mode initialization, rather than removing gold and giving it again
- question mark problem is fixed in unreleased A7
- new units indeed DO have exact damage, to make balancing easier and luck-independent. in later phases, they would get +-range, centered on present value
- top of the map is arena. maybe it's too big, but it is changed:
a. now, melee units always spawn in front of flyers and ranged
b. basic movement speed is changed
c. bit of a long way units walk is used that they make some kind of frontline, consisting of melee units, and backline, consisting of ranged ones. it actually doesn't work too bad, although old legion lord ending will be returning as optional at some point. oh, there is also some kind of compensation for the team with less players in arena, they get an armour bonus, calculated to improve fighting ability to 85% of other team (100% would be unfair, in my opinion at least, while having 1v2 with large armour bonus on 1-player team allows solo player to actually win, if army carried over is sufficiently big. before, 1v2, not to mention 1v4 was an auto-lose)
- the lumbering rate is NOT increased! i've spent hours comparing lumbering (especially beginning one) with 1.6b simultaneous on two computer. at all starting scenarios they are identical, save +-1 sec - 1 wisp always gives 55 at the end of lvl1 and never 60, 1-wisp-at-start build gives 90 lumber (in case of leak there is 100) at lvl2, full incomers get 120 for dino regardless of leak etc. tested this truly much...
- true, there will be some indicator of lumbering soon, probably not the wisp, but some message like "5 lumber in 20 seconds" (possibly, seconds counter will be working, if i manage to make it)
- yeah, there are inconsistencies all around with icon placement, thanks for the list

on the tooltip question, long-time general plan was to replace them all with auto-generated ones from excel table i use in development. all unneeded data (eg damage ranges, armour/attack type, HP - basically all which can be normally seen on screen) will be removed and only "hidden" data will left (cooldown, dps, possibly nHP, abilities). this way tooltips will take considerably less space, and will allow some kind of description/lore to be added. it's on "to-do" list for a long time now, hope it will be ready for release...

list you provided is indeed very formidable Smile, but it's exactly what i need to fix them, thanks
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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  JediMindaugas on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:59 am

von_Oberstain wrote:
- the lumbering rate is NOT increased! i've spent hours comparing lumbering (especially beginning one) with 1.6b simultaneous on two computer. at all starting scenarios they are identical, save +-1 sec - 1 wisp always gives 55 at the end of lvl1 and never 60, 1-wisp-at-start build gives 90 lumber (in case of leak there is 100) at lvl2, full incomers get 120 for dino regardless of leak etc. tested this truly much...

Actualy it is not seen early, but I somewhat always end up with a far greater income than usual. Since there are no actual workers, there is no longer any cluster between them, not to mention that the path from the middle tree is shorter than from the one on the edge. It all adds up. The gathering rate of each new wisp should gradualy decrease if you are to make it completely like 1.60b. Otherwise, the game requares some more difficulty tweaking.
von_Oberstain wrote:
- true, there will be some indicator of lumbering soon, probably not the wisp, but some message like "5 lumber in 20 seconds" (possibly, seconds counter will be working, if i manage to make it)
I meant more about the visuals so you could actually count your wisps, not that they would do the harvesting. Well perhaps there could be some other eye candy.


Last edited by JediMindaugas on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:24 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:08 am

true enough, but we saw no point in replicating faults of earlier system - eg. workers over 25-27 being unusable, collision problems and uneven idle time for workers (though old wc3 cheat with manual 'return resources' instead regular one was still working, evening things a bit), not to mention large lag caused by 100+ workers. small difference does exist, but it's hardly noticeable till ~20, so we opted at the time to keep waves identical until 23rd and increase wave strength afterwards. lumbering is also bit nerfed due to increasing warrior income to +3, which generally stops 2nd wisp at lvl1 builds and make it riskier to produce 2nd wisp immediately after 1st level - slightly nerfed warrior (bash 25%->15%) with +3 income can break most 100g builds at lvl2 and makes game more equal (in lumbering terms) for all races at beginning.

only thing i do miss from 1.6b system is ability to order ALL workers to return lumber and allow sending more costly summon. new system is purely calculation-based and makes such intervention harder to do (though not impossible, i think).

EDIT:
oh, i see you updated previous post. well, what to say, thanks! with diablo3 open beta over, i think i'll be able to devote more time to fixing things from your list (well, except dmg mistakes, i'll rather fix my excel table and make shorter version of tooltips, perhaps find old lisk descriptions in unpacked map or some other way to easy do copy&paste for oh too numerous units available....
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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  JediMindaugas on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:04 am

von_Oberstain wrote:true enough, but we saw no point in replicating faults of earlier system - eg. workers over 25-27 being unusable, collision problems and uneven idle time for workers (though old wc3 cheat with manual 'return resources' instead regular one was still working, evening things a bit), not to mention large lag caused by 100+ workers. small difference does exist, but it's hardly noticeable till ~20, so we opted at the time to keep waves identical until 23rd and increase wave strength afterwards. lumbering is also bit nerfed due to increasing warrior income to +3, which generally stops 2nd wisp at lvl1 builds and make it riskier to produce 2nd wisp immediately after 1st level - slightly nerfed warrior (bash 25%->15%) with +3 income can break most 100g builds at lvl2 and makes game more equal (in lumbering terms) for all races at beginning.

only thing i do miss from 1.6b system is ability to order ALL workers to return lumber and allow sending more costly summon. new system is purely calculation-based and makes such intervention harder to do (though not impossible, i think).

EDIT:
oh, i see you updated previous post. well, what to say, thanks! with diablo3 open beta over, i think i'll be able to devote more time to fixing things from your list (well, except dmg mistakes, i'll rather fix my excel table and make shorter version of tooltips, perhaps find old lisk descriptions in unpacked map or some other way to easy do copy&paste for oh too numerous units available....
Yeah I'll keep editing it time to time, one race at a time.
Wonder what is the limit of the post length, I've been putting loads there Very Happy.

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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  von_Oberstain on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:10 am

whatif tooltips looked something like this:



it shouldn't take long to fix them all, since (after unexpectedly long work, i'm usually good in this stuff, it's actually my real job) all is automated and require simple copy & paste into map - well, EXCEPT old lisk descriptions, which i have to search for in map archive - luckily, they are in ascii form...

bottomline, i can convert them all after some 300-400 copy&pastes (which isn't such a great deal), and some search&copy&paste for descriptions (takes bit longer) and writing new ones for races which misses them (not a big deal, again work-related stuff type-type-type-it's-all-i-do-omg-for-12-years-how-time-passes Smile, which i'm used to do anyway)

you'll notice it's shortened, but all stuff is still there with additions, and there is still place for some lore/description

on mnHP/g and mDPS/g - lots of people used HP/g and DPS/g in determining value and usability of particular units (or just comparing them based on results). however, i found them misleading in my endless pursue for viable unit evaluation method, so they are replaced with these:

- mnHP = modified normalized HP; "modified" meaning it takes in account actual armor type (not all are equal, and modifiers address that); "normalized" is armor value taken in account (usually 3, but not always the case, especially in new races) - for instance, peewee actually takes 171 damage (chaos, 100%) to kill, though HP listed suggests 145. having medium armor, against AVERAGE attack it acts as it has 180HP (if it had light armor, this would be 159)

- mDPS = modified DPS, again taking into account attack type against AVERAGE armor (chaos being the best, pierce being the worst, spell not accounted for)

i found those useful, but if they are confusing or not needed or whatever, it's easy to remove them, or replace with normal HP/g and DPS/g or whatever...

if tooltips will benefit from some other data, i can probably add more easily - state your biddings Smile

oh, and armor type may break into next line, i'll test this on another resolution, and move to separate line if needed
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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

Post  HuanAk on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:03 am

von_Oberstain wrote:

EDIT:
oh, i see you updated previous post. well, what to say, thanks! with diablo3 open beta over, i think i'll be able to devote more time to fixing things from your list (well, except dmg mistakes, i'll rather fix my excel table and make shorter version of tooltips, perhaps find old lisk descriptions in unpacked map or some other way to easy do copy&paste for oh too numerous units available....[/color]


Need to hurry, only 2 weeks left before Diablo 3 Smile

I use excel to generate all tooltips too.

If you give them Damage & Speed, then you shouldn't give them dps information because it is their job to work it out..... and it is good reason for them to use pen & paper on their computer desk.


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Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

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