Saving Lumber

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Saving Lumber

Post  Killerknospe on Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:53 am

That's my first thread - so welcome to all members Smile

I noticed that in most of the ENT games players are saving... 
I tried a lot of things like just overbuild and dont go more lumber or just up king, but I think there have to be something that is better... 
So what's your ideas about countering saving? 

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:18 am

Welcome indeed, [Killerknospe]. 


We already have thread about this which [sunderkeenin] posted, you can check that out here: http://legiontd.in-goo.com/t435-lumber-saving-discussion-thread . There is very simple and good solution or 'counter' for lumbersave, and that is to make a rule, before game starts, that it's forbidden. 

I am currently working on a new Legion TD Mega version and there you won't see any kind of a lumbersave, because it will not be possible to do.


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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:10 am

Instead of avoiding the issue, come up with a solution Razz

Predict when they're sending and counter it. If they're sending 7 then get pierce towers. If you find yourself leaking every game then stay cautious with your lumber upgrading. For new players 3-1 or 4-0 is a good lumber to be for level 7. Upgrading king is not a solution, it all depend s on tower choice and tower placement.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:28 am

I know what I am talking about, not level 7, but 17. Saved 5000+ lumber for level 17 can't be countered, we all know that (if you get 2x demon, few krakens and few behemoths).
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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:06 am

Saving 5k lumber on 17 happens in less than 1% of 4v4 save games. Unless you're implying you understand how to play save better than Ent players do....

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:55 am

It is still possible. I don't know how Enterprise players play and I don't care. I didn't say that I understand how to save lumber better then them, I just say that I can easily save near 5k lumber for level 17. Of course, I would never do that (and I never did that).

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:53 pm

Well its a fact that its hardly possible. And with your poor knowledge in how save games work I don't think you should be giving bad advice.

@Killer I can invite you to watch some replays of in house Ltd games where people can hold large sends with good income.
Towers which hold 7 well include ygg, blasters, machine turret, guardian of death, but overall it depends on placement and good choice choice.
Towers which hold 17 well include mutants, Tree of knowledge, neotank (with a tank infront)

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:37 pm

It's quite simple, "don't send". With average 7/8-7/9 after first arena, it's easy to do.
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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:47 pm

You're not going to get 7/8 after first arena in a save game. If you do then you're also not going to be able to survive a send 12-14. You obviously have no clue how save games work so if I were you, I'd just stick to giving advice on no save games.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:04 pm

That is maybe correct, I didn't play save game for a while...Anyway my original point was: "It is possible to save huge amount of lumber which simply can't be countered". It'a about 5k or near that on level 17. Im done discussing.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:50 pm

Its also possible for 1 spectre to solo every single level - what you're saying is irrelevant

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  sunderkeenin on Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:00 am

supersexyy wrote:Its also possible for 1 spectre to solo every single level - what you're saying is irrelevant
I believe that's about a one in one US national debt chance. I wouldn't try it.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  Killerknospe on Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:11 am

I would like to see this replays - also to see more of HI replays. 
Maybee there could be aswell a commentary. Then more players could understand why are you building this tower or why there. I know it's a lot of work, but player can improve there skills much more Smile

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Joel

supersexyyWell its a fact that its hardly possible. And with your poor knowledge in how save games work I don't think you should be giving bad advice.

@Killer I can invite you to watch some replays of in house Ltd games where people can hold large sends with good income.
Towers which hold 7 well include ygg, blasters, machine turret, guardian of death, but overall it depends on placement and good choice choice.
Towers which hold 17 well include mutants, Tree of knowledge, neotank (with a tank infront)

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:47 pm

Well, I will upload more replays, but as I said I am very busy at the moment, so I don't play much... I mentioned that I am working on a new Mega version and that is also taking me decent amount of time. 

Besides that, I am thinking about re-writing my "Legion TD Mega Book" for new version that will come and that will also be big work to do. 

You can maybe talk to some advanced players that currently have more time than me, I am sure that they can help you learn and maybe even play games with you. You can find some advanced players on battle.net, or here on this forum. I am not sure about Garena (didn't play there for a while), but I think that best players play on battle.net. 


The only thing I can suggest you right now is to read my Book, if you didn't already.


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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:38 pm

Don't read the book, its not for save games. and you're doomed for failure.

The best advice is to visit the clan LIHL channel on us east and watch some in house games. Often there is another obs so it's a good place to discuss tactics and strats.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:44 pm

supersexyy wrote:Don't read the book, its not for save games. and you're doomed for failure.
Smile

Go write a book about saving. I am sure it will be more popular than mine.
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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:04 pm

Not sure if you're being purposely bigoted but popularity has nothing to do with relevance.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:23 pm

I really don't want to ruin this topic, because it's about saving, not about my book. My book is relevant, and if you think different, try to avoid it, but don't say that it will lead to failure, because you have no proof for that. Anyway, I said that im done discussing (because obviously there is no point to discuss with ENT pubbies) and I am doing it again, omg HI.

If it is SOMEHOW possible, I would like to please you to stop talking about me or about anything that has relation to me. Thanks!
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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  supersexyy on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:24 am

Shamelessly advertising a no save guide in a thread which asks for help about a save game. Apples and oranges.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  sunderkeenin on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:03 am

supersexyy wrote:Shamelessly advertising a no save guide in a thread which asks for help about a save game. Apples and oranges.
More like nuclear missiles to toothpicks.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  Hate2Lose on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:31 am

HighestIncome wrote:The only thing I can suggest you right now is to read my Book, if you didn't already.
HighestIncome wrote: I really don't want to ruin this topic, because it's about saving, not about my book. My book is relevant, and if you think different, try to avoid it, but don't say that it will lead to failure, because you have no proof for that.
@HighestIncome   Are you serious?  You're the one who mentioned your book and now you're saying don't talk about it?  EXACTLY.....this topic is about saving.  "Your Book" has no information about saving, but getting highest income, so don't even mention it or tell people to go read it in this forum topic.  Also your book will fail against lumber saving players so SuperSexyy is correct saying your book will lead to failure.  

TBH....if you want to learn about lumber saving, do as SuperSexyy has mentioned.  Go to clan lihl and watch how the players play.  They play a strategical teamplay game where saving and sending hard / countering is a key essence of the game.

P.S.  I love how all these noob players on here (HI's fanboys) talk trash about ENT players (calling us pubs and whatnot) yet, NONE of you accepted any of our challenges.  Who's up for a challenge?
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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  sunderkeenin on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:10 am

Hate2Lose wrote:
HighestIncome wrote:The only thing I can suggest you right now is to read my Book, if you didn't already.
HighestIncome wrote: I really don't want to ruin this topic, because it's about saving, not about my book. My book is relevant, and if you think different, try to avoid it, but don't say that it will lead to failure, because you have no proof for that.
@HighestIncome   Are you serious?  You're the one who mentioned your book and now you're saying don't talk about it?  EXACTLY.....this topic is about saving.  "Your Book" has no information about saving, but getting highest income, so don't even mention it or tell people to go read it in this forum topic.  Also your book will fail against lumber saving players so SuperSexyy is correct saying your book will lead to failure.  

TBH....if you want to learn about lumber saving, do as SuperSexyy has mentioned.  Go to clan lihl and watch how the players play.  They play a strategical teamplay game where saving and sending hard / countering is a key essence of the game.

P.S.  I love how all these noob players on here (HI's fanboys) talk trash about ENT players (calling us pubs and whatnot) yet, NONE of you accepted any of our challenges.  Who's up for a challenge?
I'll play some games with you some time. I need to learn the mechanics of a saving game for when I end up in one eventually. There are a few that randomly happen on pubs on UCBot, but they're far and few between, and don't actually have any sort of real focus on saving, but just ending the game right there with no plans for afterwards. My bnet is the same as my name here on europe, west, and east.
I don't know your in-game name, so you'd have to be contacting me at this point.

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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  HighestIncome on Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:18 pm

I mentioned my book because I thought that poster of this topic is kinda new to the game and that he can learn from my book, so I wanted to help anyhow. About "off-topic" things there is no point to talk, because there are shi* load of posts on this forum that should not be where they are. So I guess my 'little' off-topic that I made by mentioning my book is not that big of a concern....
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Re: Saving Lumber

Post  Nortan on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:32 pm

Usually best way to counter savers is to both upgrade the king and to have at least one person that hard counters specifically hard waves like 14, 17, and 20. Mass blasters/greymanes/wardens/korgoth/nightmare can plow through 14 while something like mass goliaths/magnataur/neotanks/ToK/hellraisers (fun watching a kraken kill like 20 hellraisers...) works well against 17. Lvl 20 is a bit more difficult to determine but mass wolverines is probably best and mass hades with a high value works well. Mass hydras isn't perfect for 20 with the way they die and the attack bouncing but they will definitely weaken and delay the wave a ton even with strong send. Royal griffans, fenix, and meridians can work okay for lvl 20 but it's difficult to make very many since they are weak on the levels leading up to 20. Meridians like to use slows on send instead of turtles and often aren't as useful on 20 as people think they will be (front line gets taken out with all the meridian investment and then the meridians are toast)
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