any questions about lumber and income

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Velen on Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:39 am

You want to say that UC bot admins/shamans and well clan members which play private games are bad players? ^^

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  sunderkeenin on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:29 am

Velen wrote:You want to say that UC bot admins/shamans and well clan members which play private games are bad players? ^^
No. Which replays did he get insane income against UC admins and shamans? His best ones showed names of total randoms. He's had good games against them. I'd know that personally because in the games where the team I was on did hold for HI we won. He's the best of the worst of the best of players. His playstyle is a gimmick, but an effective one if the team works around it. It just can't work in a situation where EVERYONE has high income and is sending kill sends.(Furbolg on 3 and 7. Mass 10, 20. Furby+commander+ballista mass 14. Kraken+furby+commander 17, etc.)

In a game with saving he's doomed, and in the highest level play settings saving is allowed. ENT has players playing at as high of a level if not higher than UC admins/shamans, and many of the admins/shamans are simply above average now because they have been inactive so long. They may be way above average, but not that many are truly great players, and I'm not even as good as most of them.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Velen on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:06 pm

Haha solution for a savers: "Kick+ban"- HI Smile 

Well I think that you should watch replays more carefully that HI left for future legion generations. Don't get me wrong, but as a pubbie I think you are judging too much, it's ok to have opinion, but still you are talking about someone who is light years away from you (in a legion sense) and you are not absolutely right I think.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  sunderkeenin on Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:28 pm

Velen wrote:Haha solution for a savers: "Kick+ban"- HI Smile 

Well I think that you should watch replays more carefully that HI left for future legion generations. Don't get me wrong, but as a pubbie I think you are judging too much, it's ok to have opinion, but still you are talking about someone who is light years away from you (in a legion sense) and you are not absolutely right I think.
I doubt I'm entirely right, but I've always been an analytical player. I may not have the pure skill, but I do know what works and what doesn't, and the general direction it should be taken simply from watching players better than me in the same game. At my best I probably was nearly as good as Krueter and didn't even realize it, because I doubt my own play until I do it outright obviously better. I don't doubt in a discouraging way, but in a way that seeks improvement of course.

Check ENT's setup for tournaments, as they're the only ones really running any for LTD. One thing that isn't banned is saving, and competitively HI can't counter that with what he does. When playing against savers the best thing to do is have the player most effective against a kill round(like an extra zeus on 7 or an Oceanus on 8 or more goliaths on 17 or an extra meridian or two on 20) and be at round value with your most efficient setup as well since you're likely to have strengths for the team that one or more of the other players lack due to the randomness of prophet. HI does two things that don't work for this. He doesn't overbuild, and he doesn't hit round value until later on enough that he might actually be crippled by leaking very heavily on key rounds instead of the income monster he usually is. If he leaks normally proper sending will make it even worse until it's a crippling amplification. How saving works is that people found the kill rounds, or the cracks, found the most effective combos to support those rounds, and crank the crowbar until the crate is forced open with a waterfall of leaks, resulting in crippling, heavy king damage/heals wasted, or loss unless they counter it properly.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Velen on Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:55 am

But you neglect two things. First that saving should not be done in legion (that's why there will be standard -ns mode in next version as saucer announced), and second ENT is 
Nazi place in a Legion world, because of how they play. I'm not fanboying or anything, but I simply never seen such a skill in a player, as in HI (and we both agree here I guess, hence 
the quotes). Overall we are talking about most controversial player that never actually abandoned his idea of income, and he surely could. I mean, do you really think there is 
anything (any playstyle) that HI couldn't do? He just didn't want, I imagine.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  picka on Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:34 am

since when is this HI guy PRO? legionczsk.lunaghost.com/?u=highestincome?

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Unholy_Rave on Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:41 am

Since he became famous in March 2013 when he wrote his first guide....

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  supersexyy on Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:58 am

Thought I'd pint out that ENT took only a few weeks to beat HI's 'income record' without cheating. HI had to juggle king for 4 hours to beat our record. Good player that one...ENT bans king juggling for obvious reasons.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Unholy_Rave on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:01 am

U kids from ENT are still crying? Smile Numbers, not words matter here, as HI said himself...

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  sunderkeenin on Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:03 am

Unholy_Rave wrote:U kids from ENT are still crying? Smile Numbers, not words matter here, as HI said himself...
Not just numbers, or words, but morality. Get the highest income you can possibly get without issues like King Juggling. Easiest way to fix it would be to make damage happen at 0 on animation backswing, so that the hit happens too instantly to cancel and results in full delay before another hit.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Unholy_Rave on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:56 am

Well you said that you know HI and you said that he defined the 'incomer' in legion mega...so...he will surely be remembered as the greatest incomer ever to walk planet Earth, no matter what the records are...

And still, he holds a record, morality or not, Diego Maradona played football with his hand and is still legend in that sport, so I guess it doesn't matter.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  sunderkeenin on Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:28 pm

Unholy_Rave wrote:Well you said that you know HI and you said that he defined the 'incomer' in legion mega...so...he will surely be remembered as the greatest incomer ever to walk planet Earth, no matter what the records are...

And still, he holds a record, morality or not, Diego Maradona played football with his hand and is still legend in that sport, so I guess it doesn't matter.
That is the truth. He defined the incomer position of mega, but it certainly doesn't mean he's the best out there, and he most likely isn't. You are probably exaggerating on the greatest incomer of all time part though. He'll be remembered for importance in defining the incomer position, but once someone solidly beats his highest income/minute(imo a better way to judge it because of king juggling) he won't be #1 anymore.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Unholy_Rave on Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:11 pm

I agree with you, but instead of "once" I would put "if" in your sentence Smile

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  sunderkeenin on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:31 am

Unholy_Rave wrote:I agree with you, but instead of "once" I would put "if" in your sentence Smile
It's simply a matter of time. It's probably in the top 5 most popular maps currently on WC3.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Unholy_Rave on Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:44 pm

I think it's simply a matter of what you chose to believe. Anyway it sounds somehow impossible for someone to be better incomer than HI, I mean he is income...

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  sunderkeenin on Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:12 pm

Unholy_Rave wrote:I think it's simply a matter of what you chose to believe. Anyway it sounds somehow impossible for someone to be better incomer than HI, I mean he is income...
He isn't income. He chose his name to be that. He popularized the extremes of incoming in Mega and encouraged even overbuilders to income a bit. He's a popularizer and not a perfecter since he's basically quit now.

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Nortan on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:46 pm

I do wish people would stop glorifying HI. Nothing he does could not be replicated by other players (this is a tower defense game at the core). Referring to him as legendary or godly is just silly in legion terminology. You'd be best off thinking of him as a good player that shares his knowledge with others and puts a lot of effort into maximizing his income at any cost. While it can take some time to learn and get good at this game I personally view the idolization of HI as unusual because to me he is just one among multiple good players. A lot of what determines how good a player is can be derived from how seriously they take the game; even with a lot of experience if you don't take it seriously then you may not play as well as you should. For example, if you aren't pushing to under build every level until 20 - 21 and are building completely symmetrically (where you become anal over every unit position) because it aesthetically pleases you then chances are you don't take it very seriously. However, I remain of the opinion that players I view as good all perform quite similarly without distinguishable levels of "skill". That's not to say we all play the exact same or that I have no criticisms but singling out one playing in legion td based on skill simply doesn't sit right with me. All this squabbling I see in these forums concerning HI is unnecessary IMO (not that I want to be involved in any of it by saying this. I just felt it should be said)
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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  NERV on Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:14 am

Nortan wrote:(not that I want to be involved in any of it by saying this. I just felt it should be said)


Then maybe you shouldn't have said that, right?

This topic is so off topiclol
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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Unholy_Rave on Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:14 am

NERV wrote: Then maybe you shouldn't have said that, right?
 

+1 Smile

Nortan wrote:I do wish people would stop glorifying HI. Nothing he does could not be replicated by other players (this is a tower defense game at the core). Referring to him as legendary or godly is just silly in legion terminology. You'd be best off thinking of him as a good player that shares his knowledge with others and puts a lot of effort into maximizing his income at any cost. While it can take some time to learn and get good at this game I personally view the idolization of HI as unusual because to me he is just one among multiple good players. A lot of what determines how good a player is can be derived from how seriously they take the game; even with a lot of experience if you don't take it seriously then you may not play as well as you should. For example, if you aren't pushing to under build every level until 20 - 21 and are building completely symmetrically (where you become anal over every unit position) because it aesthetically pleases you then chances are you don't take it very seriously. However, I remain of the opinion that players I view as good all perform quite similarly without distinguishable levels of "skill". That's not to say we all play the exact same or that I have no criticisms but singling out one playing in legion td based on skill simply doesn't sit right with me. All this squabbling I see in these forums concerning HI is unnecessary IMO (not that I want to be involved in any of it by saying this. I just felt it should be said)

About 'glorifying' HI, it's not that he can't be copied exactly the same, but he deserves credits for being the one who shares his builds/replays with others and for being the first to come up with a lot of ideas. It's not that you can't go to America today, but Christopher Columbus is still a legend, if you feel me. And of course his book is one of the kind in terms of 'guides' that also deserves special attention and glory in its own way...

And one more time: I don't think that he was stupid enough to give most famous legion account ever in '2vs.2' challenge, if he wasn't sure that he is
the best. Nobody defeated him ever there, and many people wanted that account...

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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Nortan on Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:13 am

NERV wrote:
Nortan wrote:(not that I want to be involved in any of it by saying this. I just felt it should be said)


Then maybe you shouldn't have said that, right?

This topic is so off topiclol

Well I really don't like to get involved and try to ignore this type of stuff but sometimes it's hard with the ugly turn this thread has taken ;( Should just let it ever so slowly plummet into obscurity though cause I'm definitely not helping it >_<
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Re: any questions about lumber and income

Post  Kongk on Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:19 am

NERV wrote:
Nortan wrote:(not that I want to be involved in any of it by saying this. I just felt it should be said)


Then maybe you shouldn't have said that, right?

This topic is so off topiclol

Well, it was off topic from the second or third post and has been about HI ever since, for some mysterious reason..

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About Mr.5504

Post  missgreen on Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:04 pm

HI kept this forum alive when he was active and he still somehow does, although he is gone from LTD Mega scene...

There is much said and discussed about him, his unique playstyle and generally, but I feel that people still can't understand him fully... He gave us a lot, he shared with us a lot, but still he surely kept his secrets for himself. And yeah, he was 'one of the kind' when it comes to income, I don't think that this game will ever see that average income scores from any other player...

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