Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:40 am

Hello Smile

We totally agree that king heals give alot of problems, which is why we removed them in b9 (still available with -os mode). There will be no further initiatives intending to improve king heals, since they are removed from "main game"..

About when b12 will be ready; well, we have been tied up with other legion related avtivities lately, activities that we need to finish first.. So my best guess is that b12 will be ready within 2 or 3 weeks..

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  xDarkSchneiderX on Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:59 am

Well I play legion since x1 was, I much prefer x1 and always in the game in garena bot servers that includes the other and to the battle.net server.

In this serverbot what people always plays is 3.41 and most often the chosen mode is: hp prophet. and Brazil in the garena room ppl are playing a very newbie version 3.3 coming 99 for each respawn.

If you could put this new version you doing in the option mode playing classic 11 coming respawn, coming the current 33, and 99 mega coming would be very cool and versatile and for all tastes.

About the prophet walked playing this current version b11, I think you should keep the first reroll for free and keep the other grades to give reroll. that if you play a lot with how I play the prophet often comes a set of unit too bad even if the player does not know the potential of each unit comes out of the game and leaving the team on hand.

The times have games-hp hybrid, and it is a very difficult thing to be playing, it depends on a lot of luck and new versions always forget something to improve this mode. I think it would be nice to return the old unit costs [Tier1]: 15gold [Tier2]: 40 or 42gold [Tier3]: 80 or 82 [tier4]: 135gold [tier5]: 200 and [tier6] 300
Or create special units that only comes in hybrid mode or using the units of other versions that are not present in this current version and use units other versions for example: [Pro LegionTD], [LegionX3 Revolution].

Tip: ending these names beta, and already uses Roman numerals to commemorate a new command, Legion TD MEGA IV
is already much cooler and will differentiate from other versions are fakes and draw more attention to personal return to play more this jewel game, warning that the game is still being updated.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:41 pm

Hello Smile

Let me start by confirming that these x10 Mega versions do excist, and that they are HACKED versions! As most people know, we do not support any hacked versions in any way. We encourage all Legion TD developing map developers to get in contact with us, so we can combine our work efforts in the same direction.

Legion TD Mega will not get a x1 mode even though I know alot of people still enjoy playing x1. To x1 people I can strongly recommend Legion TD Pro, which is availble on battle-net and Garena.. It is truly a fun x1 game and it is very well balanced. It is made by Egze and Von Obserstain, and Von Oberstain is still editing it Smile 

You are totally right that the biggest problem with prophet builder is the very "floating" unit costs. This could be solved by making sure all units fit the same cost interval, for instance; tier 1: [20-45] gold, tier 2: [50-70] gold, etc.. Doing this would require a total rebalance of the map, which would remove the "Mega-ish" from Mega (and would require alot of work).. This is, afterall, exactly what we did in Legion TD Revo though, which will soon be availble on battle-net..  

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts Smile

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:24 am

There's just one tiny thing I want to suggest about goblin alchemists/blasters. Think they got nerfed just enough, but there's one more thing remaining to fix and make them a bit more playable. Considering 2 blasters can't clean level 5 anymore (which any other similar unit can't), I've noticed it can be done with 3 alchemists and some more stuff to reach nearly 750 value. The problem is after you upgrade one of them for level 7 in front to tank pierce damage, it always stays behind because it takes a moment to cast its buff while alchemists rush instantly with their super movement speed and get slaughtered in no time before blaster takes any hit. There is also a small blaster's range which makes it even worse. I know I could build it like 2 or 3 spaces in front of others, but after they all get upgraded (at level 10 for example), it will be killed before others start moving, which makes you need 400 extra value. What I suggest is to make both alchemist and blaster move to the fight in the same time. It can be done by making alchemists cast their ability for 1 second like blasters do, or make blaster instantly buffed like alchemists.

Got some problems with UC bot recently. Almost every time I finish the game, got to wait like 10-15 more minutes before I'm able to join the new one. It just acts like the game is full and doesn't let me join, but I know it's not full because some of my friends entered it and were waiting for me. The only way is to log in with the another account. I'm playing on eurobattle (xpam).

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:01 am

Hello Vladimir3388, let me quickly cover this one.

Frist of all: "Builds which do not include leaks are often bad, or if not bad, then not the best for sure". Keep that in mid. What I am talking about is level 5 that you mentioned, well 2x Blasters can't clean it anymore, but gess what, why wouldn't you leak few units? It is true that it's much harder to build blasters after nerf, but they are still quite good and the only thing that suffers there compared to old op blasters is guess what-income.

About your suggestion: Well, interesting idea i must say, but the problem is lvl 4. If you have 3 alches on lvl 3, your game is over. Of course you can add some smaller towers, but then you won't be able to make 3 blasters for lvl 8, and again you are screwed. Anyways, to clarify, even if you added perma buff on Blasters or "casting time" on Alche, it wouldn't change much because there is a very small number of towers that would fit in that build and is better than "Blaster build" alone.

We can maybe ask KongK what he thinks, but I'm pretty sure right now that you won't meet changed Blasters/Alchemists in next version, unfortunately.

Best Regards for you, HighestIncome
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:37 am

I agree it's okay to make risky builds and leak few sometimes so you can get better income, but making something that leaks up to 10 creeps without a single send is just stupid. If they send you something like furboulg you might end up with 15 or more leaks and then incoming is over. I didn't say i would make 3rd alchemist for level 4, but some melee t2/t3 stuff with nearly 200 value and then the 3rd alchemist for level 5.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:40 pm

Hello Smile

You both state some good points there, but what I can do is to check the code to see how exactly the abilities are cast.. If I notice any irregularities, i'll correct them.

Thanks Guys

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NERV on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:56 pm

@My opinion about Blasters, regarding beta8:
Yes, level 5 with 2 Blasters can be really hard, the blasters are very vulnerable to any kind of send, but, without sends it is quite easy to pull it off, and if you do make it, you're pretty much safe for the rest of the match.
Maybe save a bit gold from previous round, in case you leak? 800 value and 3/0 with 50 gold saved is not that bad, and it's best than just screwing up with the build. Besides, there will be more income opportunities later.


Best regards.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:03 pm

Alright, thanks for quick responses about goblins. Can anyone tell me anything about the second part of my post?

vladimir3388 wrote:
Got some problems with UC bot recently. Almost every time I finish the game, got to wait like 10-15 more minutes before I'm able to join the new one. It just acts like the game is full and doesn't let me join, but I know it's not full because some of my friends entered it and were waiting for me. The only way is to log in with the another account. I'm playing on eurobattle (xpam).


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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:52 pm

Vladimir3388 wrote: I didn't say i would make 3rd alchemist for level 4, but some melee t2/t3 stuff with nearly 200 value and then the 3rd alchemist for level 5.


Allright. But I already covered that case. Let me explain a bit. If you build anything but Blaster for lvl 4, there are 2 cases which happen later:

1) Your income is thrash
2) You will leak lvl 8 hard

So 1): You can mass and somehow pass lvl 8 gently, but then you will be like 4/0 or 5/0 (i'm lazy enough to test, but i can say) which is hard fail on lvl 8 where you should be minimum 7/1.

2): If you make 7/1+ and you have 2 Blasters+ some t2/t3 melee, you will be leaking 15 acolytes which means that your game is over (because you won't
be able to income as this build requires).

Regards, HI
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:54 pm

Think I would stay on 1 blaster from level 7, few alchemists and some melee t1/t2/t3/t4 with medium or fortified armor valued like 200 and something like 6/1 or 6/2 lumber and you should be able to hold most of them with like 1250-1300 value. You know alchemists don't waste so much damage like blasters (smaller but faster dmg), just need to make sure those smaller medium armored stuff share the received dmg, so low hp alchemists don't get killed too quickly.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:58 pm

It shouldn't be possible to make builds with one unit only and make income at the same time. Either you overbuild with one unit and survive early game somehow with pathetic income, or you make income and leak extremely hard(levels with counter units or bosses).

For example, atm we have Thunderbirds, catas and elite archers which are all OP with EA which is almost balanced. Such builds, including old blaster build are just dumb, and make the game too simple to chew.

But I agree with Vladimir, blasters should stand in front of alchemists and its annoying to see them standing behind on lvl 7.

Btw, I'm curious what have you done with late game in upcoming beta.Waves are buffed? Or Sends are buffed which is better IMO? Are we going to see more leaking and game dynamic? ATM, you can even see players with 10-13k value clearing almost all waves without leaking. More demanding late game, together with king with more HP will add the flavor to the game, which we all dearly miss in B8.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:20 am

Well let's see we have a discussion over here  rabbit 

Anyways, single build towers are fine, because those kind of builds always have "hard lvl". Exept LoD  builds. Because, you have single armor/dmg type which will surely come to "counter" or "hard lvl" call it however you want. For blasters it's lvl 16, sometimes even lvl 10 if you are unlucky or you get some
hard sends. So what I am trying to say is that on a back of simplicity of the build, the disadvantage is that special level(s) that counter your sigle tower build. That stands for it.

About Alche/Blaster: Sure Blasters waste a lot of dmg (surely more than Alch) but you have to consider armor type of the two. Light armor just sucks, no discussion there. On the other hand, heavy armor is great and only counter to it is ranged mgc damage waves which are actually a few ingame. So in my mind, Blasters tanking and Alchemists dealing dmg: "Okayish, but not perfect". Also you have to think for future, lvl 12, if you have Alchemists you are dead. But on the other hand, with 1600 value (4 blasters) lvl 12 is easy gaming.

@Noheal4u

I don't exactly know, for details you will have to wait Kong to respond. I know that something (31+ lvl) was changed, but can't say anything for certain.
On the other hand, for me, it's more important to fix income mekanism than lategame lvls, because imo 7/16 is still very very broken. Sadly Kong (i think? Very Happy ) disagrees here with me, but there's not much i can do. Also I have to say that I agree on the thing that lvls 21+ should be buffed a bit, but with included income thing fixed, because with 7/16 late game is EASY, even if you get it like on 22ish lvl. With this like income mekanism, lategame lvls shall be buffed hard, very hard. B12 will be big update, that's for sure. But we will see, Kong I'll leave rest for you? Smile
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:41 am

I'm not crazy enough to do level 12 with alchemists instead of blasters. I mean, damage like 40-50 is for early game only. Ofc I would rush upgrading blasters after level 8 (for level 10 actually, cuz there's no need to build for 9 Very Happy). I would probably only upgrade lumber for level 9 and save like 150 gold, so I can upgrade 2 alchemists for level 10 and get like 1600 value, and then 2 more for level 12, which might be even overbuilt, considering how strong they are for level 12.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:44 am

That was exactly what I wanted to say, you overbuild lvl 12 and sacrifice income because of lvl 5. Not worthed Smile
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  n0blitz on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:06 am

Happy Birthday, HighestIncome Smile))
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:25 am

Happy birthday HI!  Very Happy 

I'd be bold enough to suggest even harder send than demon currently is. It should be able to make a big problem to undervalued players or players with impotent build in late game(lvls 21-30 not available later).  

Give it 1-3% Heart stopper aura and fast attack but with low base damage(and moderate splash), which would make it extremely effective against players forces but slightly impotent against the king, especially when king is on low HP. Lumber cost should go between 1.5k-2k wood, don't know which price is realistic for the NS mode. Sending that beast few times in late game should be almost an achievement everyone is craving for (of course you can do it more often if someone is leaking hard, so players will always have fear of it in their heads: "If i leak lvl 23, im getting The Big Bad Mojo Dude on lvl 24".) Not to mention, upgrading lumber and trying to beat levels undervalued after arena would be a very bold decision with such send on the loose.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:44 am

HighestIncome wrote:That was exactly what I wanted to say, you overbuild lvl 12  and sacrifice income because of lvl 5. Not worthed Smile

It's like 2k value, not so hardly overbuilt, especially if you get like 2 balistas you might actually leak and you would have to build that much with your build too, because you need more than 2300 value for level 13 anyway...

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:58 am

Thanks guys for your wishes, it's always good to have some real life friends cheering for you and drinking some dark beer Smile

Anyways, you need to realize that I myself do not decide what will be implemented in next (new) version(s). As someone who closely cooperating with our main admins, Saucer and Kong, I can only agree or disagree with some idea(s), but before their agreement or disagreement, it doesn't mean much.

To clarify:

Heart stopper aura idea: "I'll be short, seems op for me".

@Vladimir3388

About blasters at lvl 13: "You should leak lvl 13".

Best Regards and thank you again, Mr.HI
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NERV on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:34 pm

NoHeal4u wrote:
....Give it 1-3% Heart stopper aura....

Would be something kind of like Infernal's Immolation, but he doesn't seem to be working properly atm.... But I think it would be cool if we could have a new barracks, with high wood cost sends for after level 20, so we can be more offensive than just krakens and demons.

Anyway, 3% hp for heart stopper is a lot, in about 30seconds you'd have lost 90% hp!  Shocked  Usually, that's how much time it takes to clear one wave at late game, somewhere around 30 secs n 45 seconds. This is true at least for 3.41 standards, because in 3.5 you can have much more value. As for the price, with 16 lumbers you harvest 840 wood per minute, so you can easily have 2k wood each round, and much more if someone leaks.

aaaand btw, when you say you see players clearing many waves with 10k~13k value, you mean players with Hybrid or Prophet, right? Or maybe players who had "reroll"? Because these builders and re-roll tactics are completely imba in late game.

Suggestion regarding 16th lumber:
Maybe... Maybe it would be cool if we were only allowed to buy the 16th lumber upgrade after level 20? That would somehow reduce the astronomical values I've seen lately. Another suggestion would be to reduce wisp wood to +2, while keeping the 500 gold cost, I think that would be allright... Since it has no wood cost, which I believe it is due to -ns. Another suggestion would be to only allow player to have the 16th lumbre when not playing -os mode. Just because I still enjoy the 7/15 wisp system more than I enjoy 7/16.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:05 am

Nice debate guys Smile

Level 25-30 were buffed in betas after b8.. They are not supposed to be extremely hard, but they should put up some resistance now.. Players that reach 7/11 or above at level 20 (without leaking massively) will probably not have any problem in dealing with the levels (depends on race/towers), but then it is this player's objective to prepare himself as much as possible for levels after 31, which should be more beatable now, and form a better and more fair ending..

Now when king-heals are replaced with HL-compensation HP it is also more challenging to boost income massively without thinking of holding your wave or upping king.. The fact that you can't rely on king-heals to save you, will make it abit more difficult to boost early income as much as before, which will also result in a little more challenging lategame..

About stronger summons.. Well, current summons (especially kraken and demon) are actually already too strong compared to their cost.. But that is okay since it spice lategame up abit.. So making current summons stronger or adding new super strong summons wouldn't be a good idea. I also believe that it is almost impossible to collect much more than 2000 lumber, which also require somebody leaking.. But now that we are at the topic, I have long thought about making Ancient Tree of Destruction available before endgame.. Perhaps after 25 or something, but that would require removing another summon, which i don't really like.. Or, what do you guys think here?

@NoHeal4u

I pretty much agree that "massing one tower" tacticts make the game too simple, if the tactic is too powerful.. These tactics are fine, if the result of it is only mediocre and not "super op".. The tactic will, in other words, have to have a weaknees, as HighestIncome also mentions..
I therefore think that the current blasters are allright (after they got nerfed).. They are still good units, but now there are some disadvantages in only building that one tower.. Elite Archers are good in early game, but you will have to do something different in lategame, otherwise you will be outrunned.. Thunderbirds need nerfing, and that will come.. Meat wagons were nerfed abit in b11, perhaps they'll need more.. We will see Smile

Thank you guys for taking such a huge interest in the map, and debating problems or/and opinions

Best Regards
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:53 am


I understand that you're balancing game around "regular" builders, which are weaker in late game than proph and especially hyb, but... With introduction of PH mode 95% of the pub games are PH for obvious reasons, its most entertaining mode. In the other hand, this kind of balance transforms late game into the burden where your only job is to spend your gold and wait for time to pass since your offense is limited and you surely wont leak.

We will see how much "spice" there is in next beta. If its enough to make late game more interesting great, if not, you can try with ancient tree or something exotic. Atm, RMK rate after second arena is disturbing.

All in all, I like your work so far, and I'm assured that next beta will bring something big and fresh into the gameplay.


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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  BossHK on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:33 am

Kongk wrote:
About when b12 will be ready; well, we have been tied up with other legion related avtivities lately, activities that we need to finish first.. So my best guess is that b12 will be ready within 2 or 3 weeks...

That was about 5 weeks ago...any info about the progress/situation?

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:36 am

Hello BossHK,

Unfortunately, it is currently unknown when will next version (B12+) be released, due to many reasons. Main one is that our mapmakers don't just work on Mega version, but many other versions. Also, big reason for the delays is that B11 has some big changes that are complitely new, so it takes more time to fix bugs/issues with something that is basically "under testing" than with something that is rather known and tested with only slight changes.  
We can just hope that B12 will come in some reasonable time Smile


Best Regads, HI
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  xDarkSchneiderX on Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:49 pm

Sometimes you have to learn to run before you start walking.
Tony Stark - Iron Man


not need to test and then post, it's just the same beta, launches as a beta test and the players even
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