Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Rockabilly[UC] on Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:26 pm

Some short Ideas for next beta:



Raise Summon HP up at lvl 23, 25 , 26? The waves are too easy. In early game i think its ok to get some weak waves likr 15 so you can push inc.

How abot +3 inc for Farm upg?  tongue  (some other players asked about that - why not..)

Then a -giveup funktion should be implented. The !rmk vote is not rly a remake and all players need to agree. But if one side want to giveup, it should be possible to end game if all players on one side type -giveup ( like in Btanks)  study 

How about something like a leaver bonus gold?  Question  Idea 


( i know you already get ideas for a hero system, i also get something in my mind.. build aura towers at the hometown side little like in Zwuckel TD? )  geek 

Best Regards,
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Rockabilly[UC] on Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:05 am

tauceti wrote:I agree with mr Diablo_ he is right with everything except Master Archer which is good balanced with 550hp ++++

Soul of villain should not be nerfed you are making ghost race even worse than it was before while imba orc race still have warlock(more hp than villain so dont say it cost more without any reason....) and still got -4 armor reduce wtf???????????)

That new unit 200 upg is wayyyyyy to much.

Aquas cost raise to 55 or even 60 but do not cut 1/4 life.....


Thunderbird Imba aswell should have stayed at 155 and 1 food i see no reason of latest change ,looks like you did not rly tested how it works with reduced attack speed:)

About wolverines rework....again kind of not balanced now i tested them and it was something like : lvl 3 value 450(1 wolv+2x orc) send archer+milita ~~40% times leaked something, lvl 7 1100 value( 4xwolves+1orc) 60-70% chance to leak without any send , lvl 10 leak because  of no crit on bosses lvl 12 even harder than it was before, lvl 14 3000 value leaked 2 of 3 test games without any send!!!!!!!, lvl 17 4250 value pure wolves leaked 3 of 3 test games without any send!!!!  There was no reason to rework wolves when they have no crit on bosses...

About 7/16 cost 400 gold only and give +3 wood... i rly dont understand why you add something like that you made end levels even easier for NS games than it was before. I said that on other forum need to make 20-30 rounds harder istead of adding unreasonable 7/16.


And for myself i ask again add Dark Priest more hp!!!! 690hp unarmored cost 325 and have lower DPS than for example Dragon Hawk which cost 320 have 1480 hp and medium armor..............its SICK



)

If u read the UC Forum u will see, Thunderbird was made without cost food and lower price cause balance it to violet.

Blood Orc do only -3 armor, tooltip wrong.
Y Warlock got more hp then Soul of Villian, but Soul got more range.
Y Warlock got more dmg then Soul of Villian, but Soul att faster.


Play it right way, lvl 3 420 value 4blood orcs send archer - no leak, easy lvl.
The Finishing Blow is no crit. Maybe you should read the tolltip! And its not done, it will be getting better - look UC Forum?
Sure it needed to be reworked, the Crit was too op, one hit a boss? cmon....  affraid 

Plz dont cry just cause old build dont work longer.

Dark Mage isnt a Tank, its a DDler he dont need much hp.

7/16 is nice thing, cause you can send demon easyer and make endgame harder. Well i agree that endgame is to easy, but not cause 7/16, waves just should be harder. But that is already said many times, here, there, in every forum.

And work constructive at the map in Uc Forum or here... not just destructive flame after its already done.  Sleep 

Best Regards

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:42 am

Hello everyone Smile

Again, thank you all very much for your feedback.. I will (as usual) have to answer very briefly.. BUT first of all, as promised, Mr. Diablo:

Engineers: Yup, they are abit overpowers atm, will nerf them for next version Smile

Mudman/Golem: They are the only tankers on element builder, so i guess it's ok that they are better than the average.. I do not see them as overpowered in any way, just a over average..

Stock Replenich on Demons: Well, you won't be able to send 2 demons without saving, which can be prevented by adding -ns to the game mode.. And those people who believe saving is allright would probably allow people to send 2 demons after saving..

Stock Replenish on milita, Bowman...: I dont think this one need further explanation..  

Aqua, New tier 1 and Blood Warlock: Agreed Wink

Elite Archer: I completely agree with Nerv on this one.. People are simply too used to Elite Archers being TOO overpowered.. Now they are still very good units (better than most), but simply not as good as before.. 

Furbolg: 140 lumber is simply too cheap for an aura that gives up to (sometimes) more than 50 creebs +3 armor.. 160 is actually too cheap as well, but you get a bigger income penalty as well, so i guess it is fine as is..  

Re-rolls: Well, if play normal races you aren't allowed a free -cb as well, why should on prophet then? And to be honest, if you are not willing to pay 50 lumber for your first re-roll, then your first roll can't be that bad Wink

Implementing non-balance changes to 3.41!: That won't happend.. We are creating a new version here.. Some things will change.. Some people will like something that other people don't like, and the other way around.. I guess people will just have to take rough with the smooth.. Smile


General Discussion:

I will simply pick out some things and comment on them.. Things that aren't commented AREN'T less important..

@NERV, -ns limits: -ns limits are in fact determined due to farms.. 80 lumber will make sure that you will always be able to buy a farm even after -ns has had it's big hands in your pocket Very Happy.. If it wasn't for farms (and to some degree lumberjacks), limit would always be 0.. About being able to send a whelp every lvl; well, i would be surprised if -ns prevented you from doing that.. Remember, after -ns has spent your lumber, you have about 40-50 seconds in build phase (With 1 wisps = 8-10 lumber), and then you have the actual battle.. So if you aren't able to reach 100 lumber before -ns activates again, you should buy one more wisp Very Happy

@Various people, lvl 25-30 being too easy: I get your point, will take a look at it Wink

@tauceti, various things: I think most of them were answered in the answer to Diablo.. BUT: Soul of villain; -4 amor for 170 gold, thats simply to cheap.. Wolverine; No 250 gold unit should be able to kill lvl 28,29 etc. creebs in one strike.. It will be better balanced now (when new ability has been balanced) Smile.. Ghost being bad: I'm sorry, but I really don't follow you here.. I think NERV explains the strenhgts of Ghost very well, so won't do it again.. 

@Various people, Dark Priest: I will think about this one Wink

@Nerv, wrong tooltips: Yup, i've noticed them as well.. Thank you for making that astounding list.. Will be much easier to fix with the help of that list, thanks Wink

@Rockabilly, leaver bonus gold: I don't really think that will solve the problem with people leaving a game.. Will be impossible to balance.. Perhaps the leaver was leaking soo much, then it isn't really a disadvantage to the team that he leaves and on the other hand, if the leaver was one guy covering.. I guess the only way to avoid that problem is to prevent people from leaving, which isn't really possible Sad

(Let me get back to you on the other Things @Rockabilly)

Allright, wasn't that brief afterall.. But thats fine Smile

Best Regards
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Saucer on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:05 pm

Beta 10 has been uploaded.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  BlackJohnny on Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:27 pm

Hello

Thank you for some essentially much needed changes (I'm talking mostly unit balancing), it's definitively a step forward.

Now that being said, I think that you made a big mess by changing some perfect formulas. First of all, the 16th lumberjack, which made endgame a lot easier. And what you do in response is change 5 (or 6, I'm not sure) levels in the game because of something that shouldn't be there in the first place and as I said, by doing so, messing with the perfect formula that is the 7/15 system that worked perfectly.

As for the new modes, the kh command messed up the whole mode string, again, messing with a formula that worked perfectly. The mandatory no heal system made surviving critical levels a lot harder (since the hp compensation you added is minuscule), specially with hybrid, when you don't know if you're gonna get a counter tower or not. Anyhow, I think most people would prefer to play with heals, so heals should be mandatory and the no heal mode optional. The kh can't seem to be added in the command without messing something else up (either that being the gg, cb or even the ns part). That's, of course in a sense that a full mode has to be typed (since you removed the mode shortcuts), and it's not enough to type just -phkh or similar.

Best regards

Johnny

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:21 pm

Howdy Smile

I'm glad to hear that some (most?) of the balance changes work out good.. We get one step closer with every beta Smile

Lumberjacks:

I must admit right now Johnny, I am confused:

"Post  BlackJohnny on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:02 pm

Loving the changes, nerfs, LOVING the 16th lumberjack upgrade"

(page 3 in this thread)

Besides that i do not believe that anything can work prefectly. Everything can always get better, so using the argument that it worked perfectly before simply isn't valid. Legion TD 1.6b seemed to work very close to perfectly, should the development have stopped there? X3 versions in general changed a balance that worked "perfectly" in the first place, but X3 is more fun, ins't it? Sometimes new things have to replace even things that worked proberly before to make things better and more interesting..  

I do not agree that the 16th lumberjack makes the end game easier for all people.. It makes end game easier for people who manage to buy it in time, and it thereby rewards players that boost income at the rignt time and punish people for pushing it too late.. It also allows some very hards summons in late game as well, which makes it abit harder for most people.

Modes

Well, i have already stated my mind about the argument that "thing used to work perfectly", but mode system didn't even work proberly before.. It was full of Band-Aid solutions, (mid-string-shortcuts as -gm for instance).. They are now all removed since they became useless.. -li was removed and -mm was made on by default, this meant that these shotrcuts would only activate one mode (-gm for instance used to activate -gg and -mm, not it would only activate -gg, since -mm is always on).. I have to remind people that -mm, -hg and -x3 are ALWAYS on.. You can disable -mm by adding -df (Disable Fog) to the mode though.. So adding -kh to a normal -pH mode would simply require you typing: -phggcbnskh (is the same as: -phmmhgggcbnskhx3).. I know it may seem new and confusing, but it is alot easier now.. Give it time, you simply have to get used to it  Wink

About being able to combine shortcuts with other secondary modes (as you menion concerning -phkh), i can say that we would like to do that too.. It is alot easier that way, but it gives some problems.. Let me quote Saucer:

"About -phkh, I assume you mean that:
-phkh should result in -ph gg cb ns kh x3
Well, yes, we could do something like that, but currently the shortcuts do not combine with anything else.
There's a kind of logical problem with that, you see. What if somebody actually wants to play -ph kh ? (without gg, cb, ns)
But we could work around that, by using the otherwise useless "x3" as indication that we want a specific mode. So it would work like this:
-phkh  =  -ph gg cb ns kh x3
-phkhx3  =  -ph kh x3
Seems like the most intuitive way to go about it. However, that would require some changes to the mode system. I could take a look at that in a later version."

Anyhow, we may find a way to work around this.. Wink

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  BlackJohnny on Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Thanks for the relatively fast reply  Very Happy 

Now, this needs some further clarification. 
When the first statement was made, it was (I think) right away when the new meta was introduced, so there hasn't really been much processing time. My position generally is that income and incoming skill is something of the most importance you bring in this game as an individual (of course team play is most important, but I'm talking on an individual level). So, when I saw the 16th lumberjack, I was thrilled, because I saw it as a new challenge. Of course, when I had the chance to actually play a decent number of games, it became clear that this is something that just made this game easier. 
Now, pardon my gall, it wasn't really in the right place to say that the old system was perfect, but it surely worked, and this doesn't work (for now). On one hand, you have something that worked, and on the other hand, you have something that can work, but need a lot of sweat to get there. Although I can appreciate your effort and motivation to get things moving, create something new, I wouldn't be in the right mind to leave such issues unreported. 

And about the modes
I can find a way around it, but it's bit more complicated now, which is logical, the higher the number of parameters, the more complicated the system gets. 

And you have to do something about the meat wagons, man, beating lvl 5 with 490 value is just ridiculous.

Johnny

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:43 am

Interesting beta.  I have played a few games and also tested nightcrawlers in debug mode ( with the right combination you can start only with them and survive first two levels with  dino/whelp and lvl 3 without summons but theres no point in making that build  since if you're incoming (5/2 or 6/2 after lvl 5) , they leak 30% of the lvl 6 with whelp ).


 In my first hybrid game Ive managed to easily kill two bosses  and injure last one  on lvl 10 with nice unit combo which had only 1300 value(i had 2 nightcrawlers among my units which were making counter militia out of enemy sends, feeling was that they confused bosses really good and bought me some time which is quite good).

     New mode without heals is interesting addition. Although on this little sample  of games ive played (4) it seemed a bit imbalanced. For example,in one game, my team had immolation skill on the king, enemy king had stun. Auto HP increase gave us brutal advantage. Both teams leaked hard on lvl 7. We had no need to upgrade king and we sent even harder on lvl 8, while enemy was struggling to survive and spent all their wood on upgrades. Since we sent  for lvl 8(and they couldn't) they've lost there. We won easily because they were unable to do anything just because of bad luck .

All games that I have played this morning ended before level 20, impression was that the  team with leavers had no chance, because they were losing on medium leaks. I will have to read change log again about HP increase, but , i had impression that their king has had lower HP than ours, which is a bit unfair because they were already crippled by having leavers(they were getting more sends per person and they couldn't upgrade king as fast as we could).

I will play more today and edit post if needed.

All the best!


P.S Sorry for my bad English.


EDIT: 12 games played so far, we didn't get past lvl 19 yet. Smile This is serious meta change.  Games (default -ph mode) indeed end up faster ( a lot of players were complaining about long games in b8, sometimes including me) , but for now, this seems radical Very Happy

EDIT2: I have a feeling that melee units aren't moving good enough. Their aggro zones seem shorter. Especially on lvl 11-12. Pandarens barely moved in last game ive played, they were just waiting for enemies to come closer, while for example Krogoth didn't move at all on lvl 12 and got killed almost without any retaliation.

EDIT3: Today Ive seen game which went beyond level 20 for the first time after 28 beta10/11 games played(with no heal mode). But, this was made almost in purpose since enemy team had leavers and we didn't send on hard levels(we upped king to let them live and prolong game).

There was a big problem with sends and their movement pattern on almost every level which escalated extremely on 31+ where our sends were going in circles and ending up in the battle only after wave creeps are dead.

Also, Ive noticed. Melee towers have problems on some melee waves too, since they move and stop a lot(instead going aggro immediately) which leads to being surrounded and losing range towers which wouldn't get hit in the first place if above mentioned melees moved.


Last edited by NoHeal4u on Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:59 am; edited 6 times in total
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NERV on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:20 am

BlackJohnny wrote:
And you have to do something about the meat wagons, man, beating lvl 5 with 490 value is just ridiculous.

hello johnny!

Remember that the meat wagon have fortified armor, so they receive 30% less dmg against magic... on this matter, i would suggest a reduce on meat wagons hp, just like they were on 3.41. Balancing fortified armor units is though, perhaps we should consider an increase on magic damage against fortified? 70% to 80% would work well, but it kinda makes sense that magic deals less damage against rocks... but I think the damage's table works fine, and that's why fortified units rules Legion Mega. I vote for a reduce on meat wagons hp back to 3.41.


now, on to another matters:

On the guardian of death, I believe an hp reduction should follow the reduced cost and the reduced dmg as well.

Trident: I don't understand why such big buff on hp's of trident while reducing it's cost. it goes off the charts if you compare them to another similar tanks. I believe they had less hp because of his stun ability, which is great against level 10 boss, and against the boss in general. And on arena he was great too. The change to double damage maybe should balance things out, but i think 250 gold for him was an okey price. keep the 2050 hp and increase cost back to 250, it will make him another krogoth-a-like heavy tank unit, which can be used as a tank even for late game, it will be nice i guess.

The reduced cost on ancient wandingoo I don't follow either, but I don't think it gonna be that bad, since it's is only a small reduce. Furthermore, on arctic's arsenal, there are a bunch of slows, and most of them stacks, so I kinda understood why arctic units had less hp's than another units, and I think it is because most of the times they would be receiving less attacks.


On ghost:
The dark priest energy shield needs to be discussed, 4 points of damage reduced per each mana point, would be roughly 600 damage, the Meridian have a similar ability, but his only reduces 1 damage per each mana point, and he has 1100 mana.
About hellraisers and phantoms: unarmored fits them, being ghosts and all, but i thought they were good damage dealers and bad tanks, the light armor stated that very well.
on these two units, i think we should maybe have an discussion too, I think such great damage dealers should have a drawback.

DD machine, nerfed cost: i don't follow either, fortified units have a major advantage against all levels, the only weakness being on the siege levels, and this unit is probably one of the best units on the map, with really low variables on it's gameplay. 450 gold was an worthy price.

On aquas, with 175 hp, one should to be able to mass them if they want, but they won't be unstoppable by enemy sends anymore. I think it's good. I would even go for something between 150 and 175 hp.

About the Nightcrawler's new ability:
Spoiler:

I like it very much!


on games without -kh mode: I believe the numbers seems fine (so many buffed units should come with a nerf as well, if the king gotta be nerfed, so be it), anyway, a good team should never gets his king harm. KH mode fits better on 1v1 games or on 2v2 games. On big teams, players should be able to hold their mates leaks. We shouldn't take hybrid risks of leaking into this, simply because it's random. Furthermore, kh fits better games without the ns on. With ns save on players should be able to defend their king against regular income progression.

About the 16th lumber upg:
Bare with me on this, but i think maybe with the increase on difficult on the last set of levels, will make more necessary to have good income, and is not on every game one can buy the expensive 16th upg, be it for lack of income experience, or be it because not all games one can push income till to 7/15(some games just goes too fast). My suggestion would be instead of making one big lumber upgrade, make it to be 3. the first 2 one costing 200 gold and giving +1 wisp wood, just like the regular ones, and the last could be more expensive (300 gold and give +2 wisp wood), I believe that way one would always be able to make good use of them. All these changes (the new upg. plus the buffs on last levels) will, for sure, mess with the old 7/15 system and the required value for each level, they gonna change the gameplay, so we gotta bare with these changes and try to make them as better as possible. I know Huanak spent a lot of time balancing and improving the system, and it really worked well. I once asked him to to change the income system once, and he told me that we would never ever touch the system again. I think You guys didn't take part of the first system, so I hope you are ready to spend a lot of time on a new one. Another suggestion is: instead of this hard buff to the last set of levels, is to somehow increase the difficult of the last set of levels using lumber ( be it to buy more creeps hp or more creeps dmg with lumber), so it would be directly connected with one's ability to income and the 16th upg, and wouldn't affect all games. I know with the now harder end game, not all races will be able to keep up anymore, even because you gotta count on enemy hard sends during the last set of levels.

I think that the 1.6 legion TD War by Lisk had it's unbalanced race as well(like, on LTD War, magic damage units overrule above all other damage type, but this is not true on Legion MEGA). He could have continued workin' on it and balancing here and there, but it's an old project anyway, and MEGA has many more races to balance than LTD War, and it's also why mega is harder to play than original Lisk's map.

I try to keep my opinion absent of prophet or hybrid, because they have RNG units, so it is much harder (next to impossible?) to balance the game for them. You gotta balance it for regular races, or for RNG builders, I don't think both are possible. I'd rather go with the regular races, which I enjoy much more than prophet  Cool . I also enjoy Hybrid, which it think is quite fun.

I have another suggestion related to the -next and -info:
Add another command that would tell the player how much gold he would get from x level, like:
-goldinfo 1: Level 1 creeps gives 108 gold, and the level bonus is 11 gold.
The answer to the command would only appear to the one that typed it, like -info.



Edit:
NoHeal4u wrote:Interesting beta.  
It sure is!

NoHeal4u wrote:New mode without heals is interesting addition. Although on this little sample  of games ive played (4) it seemed a bit imbalanced. For example,in one game, my team had immolation skill on the king, enemy king had stun. Auto HP increase gave us brutal advantage. Both teams leaked hard on lvl 7. We had no need to upgrade king and we sent even harder on lvl 8, while enemy was struggling to survive and spent all their wood on upgrades. Since we sent  for lvl 8(and they couldn't) they've lost there. We won easily because they were unable to do anything just because of bad luck .

You have a point about king ability there mate, but your oponents didn't got their stomp ability right before they leaked, it was there since level 5, they could had that one coming.

But yeah, would be much worse if they had Shockwave. But Shockwave have incredible range, e.g. one can use it to damage creeps much before they reach the king, while they are still fighting the units that survived. If no units survived, shockwave is surely the worse king skill to have. Maybe a reduce on it's range and an increase on it's damage would fit good? maybe change it to be a double (or even triple) shockwave?

Best regards,
NERV.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:05 am

I believe most players would agree with me turtles are lame replacement for missing player in arena battles (especially arena 2), so I suggest to remove them and remove other team's units to make it balanced. It would be probably the best to remove matching player's units. For example if red player has left, don't send yellow player's units in arena, remove orange's units for missing blue, etc... The other option would be to simple remove any random player's arena units from the other team.
Anyway, anyone else thinks Spawn of Dragon and Guardian of Death should be melee units like Steamroller and Sea Giant are, so they can use Overseer's lifesteal aura instead of telescope?

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NERV on Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:54 am

vladimir3388 wrote:I believe most players would agree with me turtles are lame replacement for missing player in arena battles (especially arena 2), so I suggest to remove them and remove other team's units to make it balanced. It would be probably the best to remove matching player's units. For example if red player has left, don't send yellow player's units in arena, remove orange's units for missing blue, etc... The other option would be to simple remove any random player's arena units from the other team.

IMO, I don't think removing players by matching the colors would be fair at all... the random remove seems more fair to me, but I think it is a bad idea. Perhaps, if teams are not even, maybe a reduced gold earned could be a nice proposition. Maybe, on the 2nd arena, instead of getting 2 turtles per each missing players, they could get one Grom'thar, but with unarmored and maybe with no armor as well.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:29 am

Didn't like changing level 20 armor type to unarmored, which was done few versions ago. I think it's really bad, because it discourages magical damage units usage. I mean magical is really bad for most hard levels and useful for easy levels only which can be handled with any attack type. It's bad for levels 12, 14, 15 is easy for any attack type, bad for 17, 18, levels 21, 22 and 23 are easy, bad for 24 and 27, decent for 28 and becomes really good from 29 which is basically the end of game where's the best to make flying units and meridians only (because of range, not attack type). After level 10 magical is desirable for levels 13 and 16 only, which can be handled with piercing damage or medium armor. For level 19 you need around 5k value if you want to get enough value for level 20 and with that value you can handle level 19 without magical or pierce. As you can see, level 20 was basically the only level where you really did need magical damage a lot and now it's gone.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Saucer on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:48 pm

Beta 11 has been uploaded.

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lvl 12

Post  db_savage on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:21 pm

might wanna fix lvl 12. Units are half dead before they start to attack.
The "silly walk" is still there, but not as much anymore (Got a dino walking from teal spot to red before it went down the middle)

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  ReactEnemy on Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:00 am

What can i say, imbalance is on line as always.
Bug's is online as always. U doing nothing, nothing at all.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:03 am

ReactEnemy wrote:What can i say, imbalance is on line as always.
Bug's is online as always. U doing nothing, nothing at all.

This is still beta. Just give them feedback and they will fix it. No place to be disappointed.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  von_Oberstain on Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:56 am

ReactEnemy wrote:What can i say, imbalance is on line as always.
Bug's is online as always. U doing nothing, nothing at all.

After being warned, you continued. Banned.

Make your own map better, instead asking for open source - that map was made by honest, hard working people. You should be thankful to HuanAK for making it, and to Saucer for investing his precious free time in finally updating Mega, which was left by HuanAK STRICTLY to him.

I see you didn't hesitate to use MINE -db mode in your map, doubt there is a word 'thanks to' in it.

Sincerely,
von Oberstain
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:28 pm

Dwarven engineers are nerfed too hard. Considering they're good for levels 1,2 and 3 only, and very weak against level 4 and all other levels until level 17 where they should be upgraded to mutants, I believe they should be able to handle those 3 levels way easier than they do right now. If you want to start with 3/0 lumber upgrades, there's almost no way to leak less than 10 with dino. Mutant ain't that usefull as well. Inject steroids is only used by noobs now, because it's too useless. It's less expensive to leak than waste so much lumber for such small buff. I would use it only if there is a big chance to lose on next level. Upgrading to mutants is very bad idea before level 17 and not that useful against 17 as most players think. Some guy from UC told me they were tanking too good and had to get nerfed, but it's almost impossible to use them as tankers since you need to place Dwarven engineers behind your army unless you want to be raped by all piercing levels.
Anyway, if you don't want to make Dwarven engineers stronger for levels 1,2,3 by making their splash area a bit bigger, you should make them stronger for other levels by increasing their regular (single target) damage or their HP. Mutant's inject steroids needs give him better stats or it should be cheaper.
Think there's no need to tell you anything about units stucking on level 12, since everyone noticed it for sure.
Keyboard shortcuts for most units in barracks are still not working and barracks still vanishes from ctrl+# after level 9.
Everyone who played B11 had to notice income creeps running all over the map (usually after leaked from teal and green player's lane).
Thanks for reading my bitching, will write more next time I get frustrated!  Smile 

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NERV on Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:22 am

vladimir3388 wrote:
Thanks for reading my bitching, will write more next time I get frustrated!  Smile 

It was a very constructive bitching. Wink And you'r welcome to do so more times. 

I agree the nerf on Engineers was too harsh, and about Mutants, imo, would be nice if they got their skill back as it was on 3.41, but with increased lumber cost(maybe 100 lumber?), so it would mean one would only use it on occasions when really needed, just like mr. Vladimir specified. Making it cheaper could mean it would became a every-round skill, thus, reducing the income generation of demi (unless if you could increase income via mutants), and yeah, demi-human unit positioning can be very contradicting sometimes.

We lose our keyboards shortcuts because the barrack entire structure changes between lv8 and lv9, to prevent the spam of Militias, one way out would be to increase Militia cost and powers (together with Ghoul and the Archer, mmm maybe Ghoul is fine, it has it's uses on Mega, Archer is more of a neutral send, won't really harm anything besides light armor) so they fit better Mega style, right now they are just like Legion TD War... which is x1 creeps only, and Militias are very badass on LTD War, you can make people leak if you sent 2 of them on the first round. With stronger militias, I guess it would be possible to spare the players from changing barracks at lv 9. It's annoying to lose the keyboards so many times, it happens as well on Advanced Barracks at lv 10 and lv 15. But I don't know why the Advanced Barracks changes on lv 10, the only difference I see is last row being blackened  What a Face .

Furthermore, Warriors could have more strength as well, the only build I see it's heavily affected by ithem are Yggdrasil's, and only on the very first levels. Since we got ns on for many games, and will be (I think) the future of mega, maybe we could increase the power of the first row summons to somewhat 80 wood, Militia, being the first one, could be cheaper (maybe 40 wood Each Militia, but it would be too cheap, 60 wood for Militia would fit nice). Spamming at lv 10 would still be possible without the -ns on, and would be something the players would have to deal with  Cool , they did choose to play without -ns in the first place. Besides, with -ns off, you got Heals on.

Cya'll  cyclops
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:48 am

Hi Guys Smile

Constructive bitching is more than appreciated.. Not so constructive bitching is, well, you know the rest Wink

Just a quick note on a few things.. First of all, thank you for reporting bugs and giving feedback.. Allthough we may not always answer, we do read it, ALWAYS! Wink

Anyhow.. Barracks shorcuts is a knows issue, and we will attempt to fix that at some point (one way or the other).. About you having to re " "Ctrl"-numbering " your barracks.. It is not a bug actually.. Wont go into techinical detail, but that is simply how the map Works.. Nerv was right when he said that the the entire barracks get replaced with another one.. Well, enough about that..  (May change when we fix the shortcut thing)..

Cheep summons.. The map need cheap summons.. You will always need an 20 lumber summon to optimize your income completely at each round.. And making it harder wouldn't fit the price.. So i guess it will stay as it is..

About the other balance related things, thanks, has been taken into consideration Smile

Best Regards
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:32 am

Hey everyone, just wanted to say that you guys can ask me if you need/want explanations for some balance adjustments because i feel that Saucer and KongK doesn't always have time to explain every detail 'why is something like this, and not like that'. It's not like I agree with every change myself, but I can surely understand and explain it's purpose of every single change that is implemented and will be implemented in future versions. (And I'm free to say that some of my ideas are there, so it will be even easier for me to explain those).

I will give you an example: Tree of knowledge ability is nerfed from 15 targets to 12 targets. I suggested that Acolytes (lvl 8 )get HP reduced from 178 to 177 because in that case, tree of knowledge can always lasthit acolyte (sometimes it happens that acolyte survives with 1 HP) which is good nerf on the other side, considering that tower itself is nerfed.

And in changelog you will only see: Acolytes: HP reduced from 178 to 177, but i guess that you won't get detailed explanation as I showed.

If there is enough people and if you guys are interested, admins (or me) can make thread for this, where you can get super detailed answers why is some change like it is, or "what's the point of a specific change"?

So there's that, feel free to ask whatever you want (even if it's stupid question, it's not that all players are familiar with this game and there are new players) and I will try to respond in a short time. (You can even send me private msg on forum, but try to avoid it ^^)

Best Regards, HI5504
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:12 pm

Thanks Highest, we love and really appreciate any king of feedback. Since you're eager to hear some questions, ill ask one.

What hides behind "no king heal" mode? You wanted to avoid player heals( which are annoying in pubs, you never know whos going to respect color order)? Or you wanted to install some kind of fear factor for players who turn to incoming and rely on king to catch their leaks(i do that a lot with waves 17-20 in beta8)?

Ive said one, but here comes another one...

In B11, "creep left alive counter" was moved up and as I recall his mechanics were changed a bit. Why?

Tnx for responding!
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:19 pm

Hello hello ^

Well I said that I can answer about balance adjustments (if you've read my post carefully) but nvm, I'll try to answer this.

Besides that pls if you make some questions, make them with numbers like 1) Question...

1) The no heal mode is mainly i think for pub games where people often just fail to make order of healing. That's just simple, let's increase King's HP and remove heals, so pubbies don't have their game ruined. The other thing is a lag i think, I myself failed to heal King dozen of times because i have 10 secs delay. That may be reason number 2. About fear factor that you meantioned, well the thing is that "HP compensation" is not actually good atm and the King should have same effective HP as with 4 heals, just without an ability from builders (Holy light).
This is quite hard to do actually, because you need to add King's regeneration to the equation to make effective HP same as with 4 heals and many many other factors, as % of a heal usage (because you can heal King for 10 HP). I'm not sure myself how this should be done exactly, but some maths could work here for sure.

2) You will have to contact admins for this one as it's not about a Legion actually. Or to answer: "I don't know", i didn't even notice that change since B11 is unplayable and I didn't play it much to be honest. So Kong, this one's for you? Very Happy

Regards, HI
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Saucer on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:31 am

Thank you, HighestIncome.

As for the "creep left alive counter", it got integrated into the King HP board to recover some screen real estate (make more space on the screen).

I understand that some people might prefer the old way out of habit (you run into a lot of that when making changes to an established map), but I think it makes better sense this way. And large tooltips can be difficult to read if they overlap with the board areas (you'd need to collapse the board to read them).

And as for B12, I hope that we can release an update soon. Need to fix that damn bug Wink

B8 is the latest stable version right now.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NERV on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:18 pm

NoHeal4u wrote:
What hides behind "no king heal" mode?

If I may give throw opinion into the hat, I think it was just to put Mega on the same level as other Legion games. Only LTD Mega does have a Heal feature, and as you said, the remove of it implies a lot of things, most of them I really like. Without heals you're bound to be punished for your mistakes, It's ok though, because it's very possible to have high income and still hold on the waves. Overall, I think it's goes just to improve casual players skill. Because of that, gameplay's harder  Twisted Evil  Exclamation 

And about the Heal order, it ain't really a big deal. I believe every legion player with minimum experience understands what Heal is and how it works. Mistakes happens, of course, but most people learn from their mistakes.(some sooner than others)

Saucer wrote:
As for the "creep left alive counter", it got integrated into the King HP board to recover some screen real estate (make more space on the screen).

It's nice, 'cause you can close the scoreboard after lv 30 and you still get to know the creeps count on each side while you have a better view of what's going on on king's area, without having to zoom it out.


Last edited by NERV on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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