Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:34 pm

NERV wrote: And about the Heal order, it ain't really a big deal.


I will strongly disagree here :)I played 5000+games of Legion Mega and I lost (or won) 10%-15% of them due to heal failure (or heal order failure if you wish). In my case that's 500-750+ games which is not a small number imo ^^
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:19 pm

Thanks to HighestIncome and Nerv for answering this question so brilliantly.

Everything they said were right.. Beside that i can mention that Saucer and I believe that player controlled heals like these don't belong in Legion. We do know though that a lot of people like them and have gotten used to them.. Therefore we made it optional. You will still have the old heals if you add -os to the game mode..

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:09 am

@KongK

No problemo Smile

What do you think about making new thread for this kind of a questions? I feel like this thread is more inform-like or announce-like thread.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:03 am


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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 11), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Sneaky Weezy on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:35 pm

1. Red player's incomes have wrong route (use -df mode and you'll see that).
2. What about buff rangers? You buffed passive ability but it hadn't changed nothing. They are still so weak.
I played 3 games: In the first game I built only archers (not Elite), in the second game I built only infantries, and in the third game I built only rangers. With same value rangers was so far behind than archers. Say nothing of their upgrade forms.
Sorry for my bad English.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Thu May 01, 2014 12:51 am

Hello,

You have new thread for questions about balance andjustments. I guess that moderators can move both your and my post, i'm not sure.

Anyways, about "buff rangers": It's not just about the value, it's about 'when can you build specific tower'. What i'm trying to say is that cost of a tower
has 2 dimensions, not just 1, which would be 'value'. So to clarify and add, all towers are balanced together with their race, so if one race has let's say 'fail' tier 2 for example (Ranger), it has a bit stronger tier 3 (Sprite) than other races. You can't just compare two tier 2 towers, without taking a look at other
towers of those two specific races. Balance just doesn't work that way.

Np, English is hard ^_^

Edit: Dunno why is this msg so retardedly organised, when i edit it it's normal -.-
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 11), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Sneaky Weezy on Thu May 01, 2014 3:22 pm

Hi there.
We all know good ballanced Ltd v1.60b (at least I think it is). In this version infantry's attack speed is 2.1 (one attack in 2.1 sec) and ranger's - 0.9 (pretty faster) . In x3 version infantry's AS was buffed to 0.5! But ranger's AS wasn't buffed (still 0.9 lol). And appers Paladin builder whose archers were balanced according to infantries. I think it's not about race's advantages and disadvanteges, rangers were just forgotten. Also Paladin's towers all very good (except maybe knights and 1 tier ofc)
About 1 tier towers (I mean not overpower towers but the cheapest). Most of them and their upgrades is useless ( Pewee, Gnolls, Proton, Specter, Hachling and maybe Colt but I don't tested it's buff). I think 3rd upgrade will help them.
Sorry for English again. Best wishes.


Last edited by Sneaky Weezy on Fri May 02, 2014 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Thu May 01, 2014 3:34 pm

The thing you are saying about attack speed is true, but you didn't mention that infantry's damage has been reduced greatly. So there's that.


About tier 1 towers, they are not 'meant' for X3 mode. Anyhow, they should be buffed somehow, i agree.

Best Regards, HI
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Thu May 01, 2014 11:30 pm

Hi Smile

"1. Red player's incomes have wrong route (use -df mode and you'll see that)." - Sneaky Weezy

I'm afraid i don't quite follow you.. What exactly do you say is wrong? Do you mean something on the scoreboard, when -df mode is enabled? In any case, i'm very interested in finding this problem. So if you have some kind of Picture/explanation/replay etc., it would be very helpful Smile

About ranger and infantery:

I think HighestIncome came up with some very good points here, so i won't go much into details except from saying that X3 balance is very different from X1 balance, and that the exact same tower can play entirely different roles in X3 and X1..

About all the tier 1 units you mention, yup, i totally agree.. They dont really play any role at all, since they iniitally were designed for X1.. Beta 12 include some changes though that may give them at least some kind of role to play..

Thank you, everyone.. The feedback is much appreciated, thanks Smile

Best Regards
Kongk


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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 11), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Sneaky Weezy on Fri May 02, 2014 1:54 pm

Thank you for answers. I did the replay but...
New members are not allowed to post external links or emails for 7 days. Please contact the forum administrator for more information.
So I did video Smile

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  vladimir3388 on Fri May 02, 2014 4:43 pm

Everyone knows about that bug. That's one of many reasons why B8 is known as the last stable version atm...

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NERV on Fri May 02, 2014 5:57 pm

Sneaky Weezy wrote:Thank you for answers. I did the replay but...
New members are not allowed to post external links or emails for 7 days. Please contact the forum administrator for more information.
So I did video Smile
Spoiler:

That's very good Mr. Sneaky Weezy.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Fri May 02, 2014 11:28 pm

Ahh, brilliant.. Thank you @Sneaky Weezy.. The video was very helpful.. We will try to fix that bug in next beta, thanks Wink

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Sat May 03, 2014 3:45 am

Well, balance, balance and balance.

It's not easy to balance towers in legion, and you Weezy can't look it so 'one dimensional'. You can't just build two different towers and test them from lvl 1 to x and see how far can they go (or how much can they 'do'), even if same values are used. By doing that you are excluding out of the equation many many impotant things as:

1) Armor type
2) Damage type
3) Range (melee)
4) Abilities
5) Creeps' armor type
6) Creep's damage type
7) Potential summons

Besides that Legion is not about single towers, it's about combination. Some towers are 'fail' alone but imba together with something. That's what gives the game excitement and what makes game fun.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  BossHK on Thu May 22, 2014 4:18 am

Hello,

I have been playing Legion TD Mega over a year now with some friends, from 1on1 to 3on3(including 2on1 etc scenarios). We started from version 3.5(b4). Anyway, reason why I created account here is to make suggestion for lvl1 units(propably has been said earlier too); currently only couple of them are good to build, but how about to give all(or rest) of them 2 upgrades(just like wolverine for example). Idea would be to make them scale at least into midgame towers and at same time give another build paths for different races(afaik game is balanced around races and not for example around prophet, right?).
For example Element; Proton/Adept has totally no use at x3 mode, aqua spirits+mudmans are way to go. Occasionally Violet can be built, but becomes useless from first bosses onward. If we could make Proton scale into something(second upgrade) that might replace Aqua spirits/Oceanus's or lets say Violets at midgame, that would make game interesting and give different build paths.

Yes, I know it takes a lot of time to create ~15 "new" units(2nd upgrade+possibly to change some of the current 1st lvl units stats and ofc testing+balancing). Anyway, its just a suggestion where Mega can still improve, otherwise the game is pretty nicely balanced and its a pleasure to play such a great map over and over again. Thank you.

P.S. 1on2 games are not balanced Very Happy One funny thing was when we played 1on2, around lvl17 we noticed that player who was playing alone, had put like 7 points into King HP and we had put 1 point but Kings still had about equal max HP. He was mad when we sent Krakens and he did not, Kings were about equal while he had spent much more into it  Razz Moral of the story: dont be the guy who plays alone lol. (Yes, I know, its not 1on2 map, was just funny thing  bounce  Well, we play most of the time with -os mode anyway).

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Thu May 22, 2014 7:03 am

Similar things were suggested before, but there is I would say one logical-type question that goes with it and that is: "What is a difference between 2 times upgraded tier 1 and upgraded tier 2?"

Best Regards, HI
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  BossHK on Thu May 22, 2014 7:26 am

HighestIncome wrote:Similar things were suggested before, but there is I would say one logical-type question that goes with it and that is: "What is a difference between 2 times upgraded tier 1 and upgraded tier 2?"

Best Regards, HI

Not much necessarily, just offering different build paths and maybe some benefits at some cases like specific dmg type, for example Element's Proton with 2nd upgrade with chaos dmg. Or maybe improved abilitites(i kinda liked heroes at b4, though they were maybe too good at lvl11), for example Shadow Dark Mage's Mind Warp could be small aoe/for 3 units/etc.

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Thu May 22, 2014 11:58 pm

Hello Smile

Thank you for sharing your thoughts @BossHK, it is very helpful and much appreciated Wink

You state some very good points about alot of low value units (mostly tier 1 units have these problems).. The truth is that Legion TD was initially designed for X1 playstile where tier 1 units played a crucial role in the game.. X3 maps (So far!) have never really have had use for tier 1 units, since they are simply too weak in connection with the economy used in the map(s). You are totally right that adding extra upgrades would, to some extend, solve this problem..

I must say though that there are no plans of adding extra upgrades on units to Mega right now.. Perhaps in later version, you never know Smile.. B12 will include a few changes on this area though.. These changes are supposed to give tier 1 units, at least, a tiny role to play (mostly single-target-buffs, good against bosses)..

I wont go much into details right now, but the things you mention about Element builder are also very good.. This exact area will also see some changes in b12..

About games with inbalanced teams (2vs3 , 1vs2 etc):

I know it sounds strange, but it is actually supposed to be like that.. More king hp on the team with the most players.. The reason is that balancing uneven teams is a 2 way job.

1 of all you have to adjust king hp, so that it will require the same number of leaks pr. player in the team to kill a "not-upgraded" king.. Meaning that if it requires 12 leaks pr player to kill the king, the team with most players need to have more hp on their king to handle the leaks..  This is almost impossible to fully balance, but giving more hp on king on the team with most players, is the right direction.. Keep in mind that, if you use holy lights, team with more players have more holy lights than team with less players..Same reasons..

The second thing you will have to deal with is summons.. They need to be balanced in a way, so that it is no disadvantage to be on team with less players.. This is actually possible and relatively easy to do.. We will fix this problem in later betas..

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  BossHK on Fri May 23, 2014 3:36 am

Kongk wrote:Hello Smile
B12 will include a few changes on this area though.. These changes are supposed to give tier 1 units, at least, a tiny role to play (mostly single-target-buffs, good against bosses)..
That's nice to hear!
Ye I know Legion TD was made for x1 and thats the reason I suggested something like that Smile 

Kongk wrote:About games with inbalanced teams (2vs3 , 1vs2 etc):

I know it sounds strange, but it is actually supposed to be like that.. More king hp on the team with the most players..
Actually its not strange but makes totally sense, it was just funny moment(btw when playing as 2 versus 1 player, another player can always go slightly more value and make sure to get possible leaks+some gold from them), and I dont even mind about imbalanced games(1on2 etc) being imbalanced since its hard to balance and imbalance games are not the point of Legion TD but games with equal teams are.

Kongk wrote:
The second thing you will have to deal with is summons.. They need to be balanced in a way, so that it is no disadvantage to be on team with less players.. This is actually possible and relatively easy to do.. We will fix this problem in later betas..
That is actually nice to hear, tbh I didnt even think about this.

Thank you again for still improving and working on this modification. (and same goes for everyone who are working on this mod)

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Mon May 26, 2014 5:33 am

What do you think about the build farm/cancel farm exploit in ns mode? It doesn't sound like a big thing but Ive noticed that compared to older maps(where players are afraid of furbolgs on lvl 2/3 and overbuild a lot) in B8, exploiting the farm after 1st level and sending an ork/furbolg or even a bird on lvl 3 usually results with massive leakage and leaving. I didn't see anyone else doing this yet, but for 5-7g price, you can almost always make someone leak hard lvl 3 which is nasty.

You could fix that by removing those "exploitable" sends from barracks for the first couple of levels, but i guess it would make old school cross obsolete, since its good only for early attacks with hard sends. Although, It wouldn't hurt crosses with feeder/feedee concept.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  Kongk on Mon May 26, 2014 11:46 pm

Hello Smile

Very nice spotted.. Those are real and sometimes quite serious problems.. Both things are already solved in b12 though.. So when b12 is released, we won't see those problem anymore

Thanks Smile

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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  NoHeal4u on Mon May 26, 2014 11:50 pm

Nice to hear that! Great job!  cheers 
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  n0blitz on Tue May 27, 2014 12:14 am

Really nice news Smile. When will B(12) be official ?
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  HighestIncome on Tue May 27, 2014 10:23 am

It's not any surprise I guess, but I've done it, not because I wanted to ruin games, but to try/test. Same thing can be done by canceling lumberjack upgrades, which is a bit more expensive than a farm, but "saves" more lumber on higher lumberjack levels (200), which can make a difference whether you can send a Kraken or Infernal (or even Demon) in a mid game.

But sure, Kong will fix it, i'm just reminding that it can be done with lumberjack upgrade Smile


Best Regards, HI
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Post  n0blitz on Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:23 am

Hey Guys Smile

There should be a automatic Kingheal in the next version. In public games it is annoying when ppl don't heal.
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Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

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