just talking

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just talking

Post  tasos on Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:23 pm

First of all i deslike the elite archer`s hp nerf becouse it is the only good unit paladin has and since u nerf her without boosting something else u make big dmg to paladin(+ lets dont forget archers already ensure that you leak many critical waves) ,paladin is realy easy to lose at wave 10-14-17(all critical waves) and after all these archers are legion`s most classic unitu should give thier hp back or boost some other paladin`s low units like his tier 3 or maybe the priests since they waste heals on full hp units, then i cant see why dont u give some buffs to demi human builder as he is far the most underplayed class and every1 calls him bad(personaly he is the only builder i gave up on him), then marine builder alghout she is good her plays are based only in her hydras and many ppl fail with her cos she is hard to play, i suggest you t reduce her 5 tier unit cost in its upgrade as 250 are definatly not cost efficient (its crap after all) and her bottom feeders are just waste of gold u pay for an ability that activates after selling unit,why did u even add that ability? givce them something else or buff them or highly reduce thier cost.also i liked b4`s heroes they made the game easier but funnier 2 after all only dark ranger was op if u want remove her and add all the others Very Happy

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Re: just talking

Post  vladimir3388 on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:19 am


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Re: just talking

Post  NERV on Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:21 am

Hello there Mr. Tasos.

Regarding Paladin, Level 10 is actually not that hard to survive with Elites archers, because mostly you only get to leak orange-to-red colored hp bosses, you can quickly finish them with your king, as long you had bought some upgrades. But, yeah, level 14 and 17 can be messy, but, depending on how much wood one team can produce, one's king can be very resilient against those said levels. Kinda hard against saver-wood tactics though (it always is), massing Elite archers just don't have the ability to finish those levels plus hordes of sends (but then again, most builds just can't deal with massive sends in earlier~mid), you'd most likely have to leak these levels and rush more lumber upgrades while max'ing king.

I'm also assuming you made your comments based on beta4 Mega, so let me say that the last betas introduced many units changes, and there is also one more lumber upgrade available to buy. But some things did not change at all, like Delicacy, for example.

Bottom Feeder ability, the only ability in game which lets you manipulate gold (sort of), IIRC you can sell them back for 90% gold. Which I think it is a great idea, and can be very effective in early game, specially with marine play style of mass Hydras. Though I never promote then, I think it would be nice if they have something different and new when promoted, but their ability still is amazing.

Trident has been buffed on beta9, I assume you were talking about old Trident, and if so, yes, he was total crap. Legion Mega will always be a difficult map if your core unit is a melee fighter with none for AoE ability, ranged/AoE units do much better. One could also say units with very fast attack speed do well In Legion Mega.

Very high attack speed and splash ability, that is precise what Dwarven engineers have now!! Another change was on Meat Wagons, they now have splash attack on flying creeps too! It lets you kill the first few waves with very low value, while you buy many wisps. Wisps take longer to pay out than lumber upgrades do, but you will have to go trough them every time, so the earlier you buy them, the better. Engineers and Wagons went from regular to extreme good in beta8. They've received nerfs in the subsequent betas though, it is a bit harder without heals because you can't just leak a bunch of things and then just heal the king, so you actually have to watch out so you don't die.

And I think Heroes were a nice addition too, I hope they get reintroduce in the future. Also, just remembering that Saucer and Kongk always reads all suggestions (even though Kongk is in vacation right now, he will read it all when he gets back).

best regards,
NERV.
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Re: just talking

Post  Kongk on Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:56 pm

Hey Guys Smile

I won't say much except that i totally agree with what Nerv said

Best Regards
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just talking

Post  tasos on Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:18 pm

Hello nerv,
At first thx for ur reply, yes i was talking based on b4 since i play on game ranger and there is only b4 here so i didnt know for some of the changes u mentioned but still what u said about paladin isnt realy right, again i will say that 14 and 17 can be the end game and with the archer nerf (thats practicaly nothing in a game with few sents, ofc they are still op) but what happens in the sase u can a dino or even a whelp at wave 1 1 elite cant hundle, well ofc u can say u should build something else or something but ur early lumber is lower than usual in any case and again paladin has NONE other good unit elites and gryphons are practicaly the only paladin units and as fos the up king while lumbering and u will hundle well, its not always like that even if u hundle 14 17 will be mega leak + paladins game can be destroyed realy realy raely easy just by simple sent on wave 1 and and some more if u look on other paladins units tier 1 doesnt exist its 0, tier 2 is op(even after nerf) tier 3 isnt cost efficient tier 4 isnt cost efficient 2(they heal full hp units sometimes and thier heal goes wasted, also 2 priest are weaker way weaker then gryphons,personaly i build priest only cost thier heal is op for wave 30 after bosses t recover units while w8ing) tier 5 its good but u dont build many and tier 6 is very good but u cant build it early cos its expensive,ofc it should be. So dont look only at paladins advantages his disabvantages arent uniportant + i dont say u should make paladin the never leaking 7-15 heavy unbeatable builder but he is an builder whose game can be ruined realy easy in general idk what exacly u can do but thats a fact.



Now as comes t delicacy.You said its good idea and u like it cos u can sell it for 90% of price but well, why should u build it at first place if its for selling later and most imporantly u cant count on it in killing mobs its realy weak unit u pay for an ability that practiacy does nothing and its stats arent good for its cost, and u said that u can sell it for hydras late, thats exacly my point other than hydras marine has nothing and she isnt much of a lumberer so she is pretty incomplite as builder u need t change her midgame cos she canbt hundle hight waves, and also since she cant make that good income at early u dont realy haave any reason t pick her at all, personaly i play her much cos i like her and i usualy leak only 28 but there is opnly 1 way t play marine and thats spamming hydras, a normal builder should have many gameplays,marine has just 1 and u cant build her in defferend way, thats what i am trying t say, as for demi human the change sound good but most of ppl i meet complain about shamans i thing u should add the heal from medice t shamans 2 with the same number of heal no need t buff it and i thing there will no need t change his cost 2 the truth is its not cost efficient unit and demi human has no any op unit or something, all his units are from bat t good so i think this change will be good t him

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Re: just talking

Post  NERV on Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:32 am

Hello again Mr. Tasos. I hope you're doing well.

Regarding Paladin: Level 14 and 17 are really hard for paladin, and I think you would be better off buying more lumber instead of trying to fully hold those levels. Maxed king plus heal won't die for neither of those levels, I can guarantee that (maybe you won't have to use your heal, but then again, its that's what heals are for). To avoid wasting heal at level 10 make sure your king has at least 5/5/5 upgrades, that should do (If your teammates are leaking, having more hp/damage upgrades is advised).

Level 1 (all early levels actually) is easy for Elite archer, every game I play with 'em I manage to kill all creeps, but I always leak the summons. Just try building far away from the spawn area and close to the wall, that way you can take advantage of Elite archer massive AoE attack and will prevent you from being quickly surrounded.


Where to build your first Elite Archer at level 1:

 
- - - - -|
- - - - X|
- - - - -| Wall
- - - - -|________
- - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - -

X= Elite archer

How your Elite Archers should look like at level 5:

 
- - - - -|
- - - - X|
- - - - X| Wall
- - - - X|________
- - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - -

How your Elite Archers should look like at level 10:


- - - - X| 
- - - - X|
- - - - X|
- - - - X| Wall
- - - - X|________
- - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - -

The point here is to build them in a way they won't get surrounded. Having 6 Elite archers is advised, but 5 is is the minimum you should have.


The late game of Paladin is based on your value, not really on what units you deploy. Massive value will always make sure you beat the levels (that's why you should try and maximize income generation every level during early~mid levels  Wink ).

The healers are not reliable, that's true, the AI is not very sharp so they usually screw things up, so I don't usually build more than 6~8 healer and I never build them before I have maxed lumber upgrades or before level 20 (again, it always depend on your value). I try to avoid building the Paladin tank units, just because I don't think they are reliable (though the Knight upgraded is very strong and make up for an excellent tank).



About Marine... You are forgetting the Highbourne, which imo, and I guess many players would agree with me, it is the strongest and most useful supporter unit in the game. They can heal, deal damage and increase armor, all at the same time. Pretty neat. It is kind of expensive, but it is very good. I wouldn't recommend having more than 1 before level 10 though...

Another unit you're forgetting about is the Eggs. Sure they don't do much, but they can tank pretty well for the early levels, and if you deploy them correctly they can be the difference between leaking half a wave and clearing the whole wave. When upgraded they make for insane damage dealers, but they became very fragile, so it is kinda hard to use this unit, I can understand. You use the Eggs as hard tanks, but the upgrade is a damage dealer? It is confusing. But then again, Legion Mega is a game about strategy and tactic, so you gotta think things through. Not every unit is worth of its upgrade, especially when they are in the first line of your army.

The Bottom Feeder can be used in a lot of different ways, but I never said to use 'em in the late game, that'd be crazy, they are just too weak. He is not a killer machine (although he can deal some damage at level 6), his main role is tank/decoy unit. For example, if you build one Komodo at level 1, but you are hesitating about it, you can build one Bottom Feeder to act as a main tanker while the Komodo deal with the wave, and them after the round is over, sell it and build another Komodo for level 2. When you're playing mid, they make excellent decoy units, because later on you can sell them and build better decoys. With prophet the possibilities are really infinite (I personally like to use bottom feeder + Yggdrasil/Tree of Knowledge and Bottom feeder + Orc Warchief).

What I said before about Paladin end-game is actually true to every builder. The end games depends on your value, not really on what units you have (exception made for hybrid/prophet). The Hydra (the main damage dealer of marine) deal magic damage plus small spell damage, so  you can expect them to have trouble at level 28, but I assure you, if you manage to have 15k value at level 28 you won't leak. Overall, Marine is not such easy builder to play with, but If you play it right, you can be as strong as any builder out there.



About general gameplay of MEGA:
Yeah, balancing the builders in a way so you can have many different builds to choose from is actually what Kongk and Saucer are doing with the latest beta. It is kinda hard to do so because of Mega meta game:

- Too many different levels
- Low count of units within each race
- Most units follow the same pattern of Armour/Damage Type when upgraded
- End game is based on your value, not on your units

Because of that, you will often search/play the same best build, even though there is a bit of RNG in every game, most games will develop the same way.

That's why I think most people really enjoy prophet/change builder. It gives them an easier game and it is actually more fun to play a diverse and different build each game and unfortunately, there is just so much one can play the same build before it gets stale. Of course, some people, like myself, have fun playing regular races over and over without changing builder, but in the end is all about the best build. Positioning units plays a major role, but it is not hard to master, the concept is the same for every race. I think there is only three really flexible races in Legion mega, them being: Mech, Beast and Arctic. These are the only ones you can actually do multiple different builds while still being very successful. This is my opinion.

I think now I might be ranting a little bit, so i'll just stop here. Mind you that your opinion is very important to the map makers, so don't stop posting Exclamation  I strongly recommend you to stick around and wait for a new release of Legion TD REVO, I've played it a bit with Kongk and to me it felt like an upgraded Mega experience.

Best regards,
NERV
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I was right muahahahahaa

Post  tasos on Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:16 pm

Hello ren,
Well, i tested paladin in b11 some times and he was nothing but shiet,If u didnt want the elite archer build, at b11 paladin is only good early. You have to change him at 12 and ofc u build only elites.So he realy needs buffes at his other units thats fact.I cant see why his tier 3 is so expensive(i never ever saw any1 using them if they had no hyb) and its not secret that priests arent reliable.I know that when every1 hears paladin his first thoughts are the elites but if u want to play more than 12 waves as paladin u will fail to both mid and late.+ paladin is the list flexible builder in game atm, he can only build elites nothing more, u said that u want all builders to have many gameplays so why dont u want this from paladin 2?.



As come from marine u are right she is is fine at b11, i dont thing she needs any change.
best regards,Tasos

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