GG mode

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GG mode

Post  Comp on Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:01 pm

Just questioning the logic behind a mode that encourages pros to play with noobs. The skill in this game is dependent on the balance between incoming and building so you don't leak but maintain the inflow of gold for later levels, GG mode just encourages people to overbuild and pray that someone on their team is shit.
Also kinda sad that x3 has become stock standard mode for legion now days :/ people just choose elf and overbuild it with GG mode on which is not only monotonous but boring.

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Re: GG mode

Post  Comp on Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Just read a thread about how you said that you only care about x1 mode since all races are unbalanced in x3 so i guess that kinda makes my post a bit pointless, but just wondering what modes do you consider balanced for the game?

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Re: GG mode

Post  eGze on Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:56 pm

So i should remove X2, X3 and GG? If you dont't like these modes why you play with "noobs" just leave and host your game. I do not see any problem.
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Re: GG mode

Post  guy4 on Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:14 pm

wow so happy I found your maps again!!!! I kept looking on www.legiontd.com for your maps and thought you had stopped.Then yesterday by luck I was searching for random legion maps and found yours!!!

Now back to the topic... I am so sick of guys complaining about modes!!! Modes are there for you to play them or not to play them you choose. It adds variety and does NOT ruin games. If you gona complain about modes, then you retarded and must not play again. You dont deserve the genius behind these maps and the brilliance of the developer that thought the modes up. It broke my heart to see the modes torn apart on the official legion site.

The reason your modes and legion maps are the most played is becuase they are the best. Screw what the critics say. I love the "new" 3 races (even though artic and goblin has been around for a while but constantly changed and rebalanced with aweosme creativity).

I mean no disrespect to Lisk coz he was a genius for thinking this map up, but your legion td has way superceded 1.60b in everyway. Its easy to type modes to have a hard serious game and easy to type modes to have a relaxed fun game. GG in my opinion is the best mode for pubs. With pubs you cant always wait for pro's, sometimes you gotta let noobs play. Like last night this one noob, builds 1 unit and leaks whole of wave 1, then sells it on level 2 and leaks whole level 2 wave. Then says this builder is shit.. LOL. Normally the game would be ruined and I would have to kick him (by the way love the kik command Smile. But with GG, I said dont worry you income (coz he too noob to build) and ill catch. The game went to level 31, 5 levels and we just won. Awesome game instead of a ruined game.

Sorry if I have babbled on a bit, but I cant tell you enough what a brilliant developer you are, your creativity, your speed at which you bring out balances, modes, races, new abilities etc etc etc

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Re: GG mode

Post  Comp on Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:00 pm

Think you've misunderstood what I was asking. Wasn't asking for the removal, was just asking about them being balanced etc. But as I said in the second post, you said that not all modes are and that you don't care. Which is perfectly fine, I accept that as an answer to my original question.

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Re: GG mode

Post  Comp on Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:02 pm

And yeah ignoring everything guy4 said, all I see is kiss ass :/
I mean cheers for the map and all and I appreciate it, but what he said went a wee bit far?

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Re: GG mode

Post  guy4 on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:32 pm

Sigh at Comp, he replies on a dead topic just to flame.

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Re: GG mode

Post  lvlupnow on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:54 pm

eGze wrote:So i should remove X2, X3 and GG? If you dont't like these modes why you play with "noobs" just leave and host your game. I do not see any problem.

i think you should remove x2,x3 and gg mode. they make the game imbalance.
i stopped playing legion TD when the original creator stopped making new versions. then i came back to this map b/c of a friend, which is now where i play version 2.7.
i can't help about wonder the point of fire machine when it sucks in x1. b/c by the time you get it, it loses its purpose. can't help and think how dumb you are.

frankly, people's lives are not only on Legion TD Wars, we are not going to perfect each and every race in the map. when we find that some are much better than the rest, we abuse it. please balance the races and not introduce any new ones. you would have a hard time balancing them. honestly, 12 races already, we are not super computers. dont want to calculate every unit down to the last variable. there are already so many, food, income, workers, waves, armor types, etc.

Watch what are u sayin dude...

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Re: GG mode

Post  guy4 on Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:22 pm

@lvlupnow - you have a very narrow minded inaccurate view. He has already nerfed GG mode for 2.8 (in case you didnt read that) and opened a discussion up to GG mode improvements. As for removing *2 waves and *3 waves because you think it makes the game unbalanced, I am sure the thousands of people that play legion 2.7 would disagree (or if he did remove them it would spoil it as the most often hosted mode is 3* and gg). So should Egze remove *2 and *3 and reduce the many races so that the game is exactly the same as 1.60 (which on my server is way less popular then 2.7) and pointless or should he ignore your flaming (i.e. calling egze dumb when he is more than likely a lot more intelligent then you) and continue as he is?

Also, if you think 1.60 is so balanced and 2.7 isn't, then you obviously not good enough to abuse 1.60 imbalances. You also admit to not undersatding or being able to calculate every unit or race which means if you dont understand these things that you arent good enough to call things imbalanced.

Note: saying that fire machine sucks for 1 * creeps is true but every race has "weak" That exactly what I want to change, boosting ever singley weaker unit, still beast in cheap, mech is expensive though units (including the old 1.60 races). And fire machine is highly overrated in *3, because it might pawn the early levels but sucks badly in the later levels. I have explained this in many posts so wont go into more detail here.

Last note: its better not to flame map makers of egze quality because he spends a lot of time trying to make something for our pleasure. Why don't you get up of your lazy, complaining ass and make a better map then Egze if Egze is so dumb and you dont like his map???

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Re: GG mode

Post  guy4 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:39 pm

Hmmm, not sure if improving weaker units will make the game imbalanced or not. Lets take golem (the mudman upgrade for aqua) for instance. It has terrible stats, but siege dmg which really helps on level 17 which is hard a level for element (1 * wave). So its nice challenge that golem is a "weaker", because then you try build as few as possible for 17 (and even 22) to get as many workers as possible but still be able to beat lvl 17 and 22 without using too many golems. If golem was made into an average unit (i.e. hp and or dmg improved quite a bit) then it would make element overpowered because then golem could tank nicely for oceanuses and you could "overbuild" golems without having to do a fine balance.

Having weaker and stronger units poses nice challenges because you cant just spam the stronger units as on certain levels they will be weak depending on their armour and damage type, so it makes it nice and challenging to try get just the right balance by minizmizing use of weaker units (if they are neccessary) and maximizing stronger units to get as many workers as possible without leaking.

I suppose if all units are average then it simplifies the game alot because then you just build the unit that will do well in the next wave (will have the right armour type and dmg type).

Hope this is a helpful opinion. Smile.

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Re: GG mode

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:54 am

Well, in fact golem is not good tank, he ahs very average dps/hp stats. I boosted him cause i am a fan of games based on upgarded units rathr than massed ones. I mean 2 mudmen are better and chepaer than 1 golem, so why shouldn't player buy mudmen? Now it changed. I have great information. Possibly I have finally found a spellmaker Very Happy.

So truth but, some untis were weaker so ahrd that they were not worth buying e.g. highborn - more than 1, DM, Doppelganger (big cost, seems to be high lvl pwner, he is low lvl pwner...), Golem, Veteran (a bit!). Too strong ones: Spawn of Dragon (u highlighted the clue that it's good even against the air which splash doesn't affect so i weakened his hp by 120 ;p, in fact comparing to Aspect it's slightly better - no reason, lower upgrade - lower power), Mermaid etc.

I am just a little bit nerfing and boosting certain units which I think are too good/bad. Believe me guy4, there are some below the average and not proving usefullness in any lvls (Doppelganger is a perfect example).

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Re: GG mode

Post  lvlupnow on Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:26 pm

guy4 wrote:@lvlupnow - you have a very narrow minded inaccurate view. He has already nerfed GG mode for 2.8 (in case you didnt read that) and opened a discussion up to GG mode improvements. As for removing *2 waves and *3 waves because you think it makes the game unbalanced, I am sure the thousands of people that play legion 2.7 would disagree (or if he did remove them it would spoil it as the most often hosted mode is 3* and gg). So should Egze remove *2 and *3 and reduce the many races so that the game is exactly the same as 1.60 (which on my server is way less popular then 2.7) and pointless or should he ignore your flaming (i.e. calling egze dumb when he is more than likely a lot more intelligent then you) and continue as he is?

Also, if you think 1.60 is so balanced and 2.7 isn't, then you obviously not good enough to abuse 1.60 imbalances. You also admit to not undersatding or being able to calculate every unit or race which means if you dont understand these things that you arent good enough to call things imbalanced.

Note: saying that fire machine sucks for 1 * creeps is true but every race has "weak" That exactly what I want to change, boosting ever singley weaker unit, still beast in cheap, mech is expensive though units (including the old 1.60 races). And fire machine is highly overrated in *3, because it might pawn the early levels but sucks badly in the later levels. I have explained this in many posts so wont go into more detail here.

Last note: its better not to flame map makers of egze quality because he spends a lot of time trying to make something for our pleasure. Why don't you get up of your lazy, complaining ass and make a better map then Egze if Egze is so dumb and you dont like his map???

well, i dont think i am "very narrow minded inaccurate view" None narrow-minded one thinks he's narrow-minded.... if anything, i am open minded ..., b/c i didnt make a judgement about x2,x3 and gg mode after i played those modes many times and discussed with players about those modes.
since 2.8 version is not out. then you can't say he already nerfed gg mode Maybe guy4 can't, I can cause I know, anyway I do my own things which guy4 can influence at least by his opinion which is respected there, cause of his open mind and intelligent which u have lack of as we all see. in case you didnt read that on this forum.
it seems that you think i suck on 1.6 and 2.7. It doesn't matter how good u play, coz probably u would own me now, but I know this game better and I am moderator here and modder of this map. Although I am not the object of discussion
well, only if you beat me in a 1v1 in 1.6 or 2.7 map, then you can call me a noob.
i play on garena, warcraft rpg, usa server
in x3 with fire machine, it is not over rated b/c you can get a lot of workers early game and gain a lot more income than other builds, which means fire machine is overpowered and imbalanced.

you last sentence doesnt make sense. It does
sigh, when good players read your post, they know you suck. so i dont need to convince noobs that you suck. i am stopping here. life's too short wasting on you. WHAT THE FUCK?! Pro players reading your post should think same as u think, coz basing on your assumption - this what u think is so obvious that all pro must believe the same?! U feel like you're one of them?! Maybe u can play this game, idk, but u definiatelly don't understand it.

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Re: GG mode

Post  guy4 on Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:48 pm

PROcuratorDotA wrote:Well, in fact golem is not good tank, he ahs very average dps/hp stats.

Yeah totally agree it has crap stats (cool that you boosting it) but my point was that he still is neccessary for lvl 17 (1 * wave) even if you just build 1 of him.

PROcuratorDotA wrote:I boosted him cause i am a fan of games based on upgarded units rathr than massed ones.

Yeah much prefer upgraded units to massed units (will help lag issues as well, and collison issues), but I do understand why lisk made upgrades weaker (weaker stats per gold) then the orignal unit. He did it because 1 unit is much stronger then 2 units split up with the same total dmg and hp.

I mean 2 mudmen are better and chepaer than 1 golem, so why shouldn't player buy mudmen? Now it changed.

Yeah 2 mudmen are defintely stronger so you try build as few golems as possible. Golem only really needed for lvl 17 and 22 (on 1* wave)

PROcuratorDotA wrote: have great information. Possibly I have finally found a spellmaker .

Thats great news!!!

PROcuratorDotA wrote:So truth but, some untis were weaker so ahrd that they were not worth buying e.g. highborn - more than 1, DM, Doppelganger (big cost, seems to be high lvl pwner, he is low lvl pwner...), Golem, Veteran (a bit!). Too strong ones: Spawn of Dragon (u highlighted the clue that it's good even against the air which splash doesn't affect so i weakened his hp by 120 ;p, in fact comparing to Aspect it's slightly better - no reason, lower upgrade - lower power), Mermaid etc.

Yeah highbourne and golem are weak. doppelganger i rate as an average unit (not weak), because high attack speed is efficient and he doest have bad stats for an expensive unit. Yeah spawn does need nerfing nice one Smile.

Takes a while, look better ;p

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Re: GG mode

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:54 pm

No way, I will stay with my opinion that Doppel sucks hard. Why? High lvls which he's supposed to beat because of his cost and Tier number he is DRAMATICALLY reduce his (like u all love this word ^^) efficiency by having imba armor. Also, critical strike are too capricious and this unit can easily turn to be more or less useless cause of bad luck. Of course on the contrary it can help beating wave which we werent supposed to but it scarcely happens. One more argument: to make doppels worth anything u MUST buy this lifesteal unit which sucks hard. Maybe it has magic dmg which is sometimes helpful (imho only 10 lvl) but again aura should and in fact does reduce every unit it has dps/hp/etc. potential. Of course again - this aura is not useless for other units than doppel but almost useless. Upgraded gateguard dies in first 15 seconds, being attacked gets more or less 60-80 hp from aura. Ain't much.

In Insane mode coming I must give all races 1 unit giving Spell smg, I guess for Shadow it will be Doppelganger and/or Worst Nightmare (upgrade of doppel) and/or Dark Mage + Corrupted. For Mech - that will be nerfed zeus. Nature - Thunderbird, Fairy-Tale Dragon. Beast - no basic spell dmg. Elemental - many units with spell dmg ;p one of gamestyles for this race, usually efficient (^^). Marine - better cloud from Highborn, spell dps potential and upgrade. Demi-Human - certain spells, not many, as Beast. I won;t unveil other new races' secrets yet Twisted Evil .

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Re: GG mode

Post  guy4 on Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:27 pm

Yeah true, crits isnt a good ability, hadn't thought about it that way. I suppose evasion is also not a good ability (too luck based as you said and wmight make you leak a level you shouldnt have if you get unlucky). But i suppose crits is worse then evasion as you might get a lucky evade of lots of dmg when doppel is just about to die, but doppel might do a large crits on a unit just about to die and waste dmg potential.

Yeah the lifesteal aura unit sucks hard but I think life steal aura is one of the best in the game (and it works against all levels, unlike a few auras which dont work against range). even adding just 60-80 hp to each upped gateguard and quite a bit more to doppel gangers is worth it. Also infernos do a bit better with life steal. Getting harbringers (and the upgrade) for level 15 is very good (just my opinion).

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Re: GG mode

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:30 am

Screw this aura, however auras won't stack for sure. I have a puzzle now should I randomize game a bit or put everything on skill... Hm. I guess some factor of luck must stay but critical strike of doppel will be nerfed (x3? wtf x2.2 max) as he gets spell attack - big boost, I must and I will bring efficiency to this unit tough nothing gonna be imba (on normal mode of course Very Happy). Evasion nerf is also needed.

To make myself comprehensible - I want all races to have its own style and it will stay but above this I want to make all units useful in number more than 2 that's it.

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Re: GG mode

Post  lvlupnow on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:02 am

lvlupnow wrote:

well, i dont think i am "very narrow minded inaccurate view" None narrow-minded one thinks he's narrow-minded.... if anything, i am open minded ..., b/c i didnt make a judgement about x2,x3 and gg mode after i played those modes many times and discussed with players about those modes.
since 2.8 version is not out. then you can't say he already nerfed gg mode Maybe guy4 can't, I can cause I know, anyway I do my own things which guy4 can influence at least by his opinion which is respected there, cause of his open mind and intelligent which u have lack of as we all see. in case you didnt read that on this forum.
it seems that you think i suck on 1.6 and 2.7. It doesn't matter how good u play, coz probably u would own me now, but I know this game better and I am moderator here and modder of this map. Although I am not the object of discussion
well, only if you beat me in a 1v1 in 1.6 or 2.7 map, then you can call me a noob.
i play on garena, warcraft rpg, usa server
in x3 with fire machine, it is not over rated b/c you can get a lot of workers early game and gain a lot more income than other builds, which means fire machine is overpowered and imbalanced.

you last sentence doesnt make sense. It does
sigh, when good players read your post, they know you suck. so i dont need to convince noobs that you suck. i am stopping here. life's too short wasting on you. WHAT THE FUCK?! Pro players reading your post should think same as u think, coz basing on your assumption - this what u think is so obvious that all pro must believe the same?! U feel like you're one of them?! Maybe u can play this game, idk, but u definiatelly don't understand it.

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Finally u started taking in a proper form so we can discuss further
moderator, what you said about narrow minded. you didnt explain why i am narrow minded and lack intelligence. how is intelligent measured?
On a lvl of ur posts, in first u called egZe dumb cause he implemented 1 wrong unit which he alrdy balanced as far as I know. Then u called probably best player on the forum and our opinion expert a noob. Then u wanted us to remove x2 and x3 because u think it's impossible to balance it (99% ppl play this modes). I think u didn't prove ur inteliegence how big it is, while these things are also enough to call u narrow-minded.
you said, i probably can beat you at Legion TD, doesnt that show that i understand how to play Legion TD better than you can?
Well, u seem to not get the information that developing of the game means often implementing new units, not all are screwed like FM and actually is the exception in a crowd of good ones so why u call creator dumb? It makes me sick
You said, i got assumptions, what are they?
There is one: any pro reading guy4's post would think that he suck. Needless to say it's a bullshit.
and one hidden: pro = play good. While in this forum any noob can say something valueable to me while, it doesnt matter ho u play but how useful for egZe and me ur opinions are, take a look into posts ppl I like, what are they like, he?
it seems that you are arguing with yourself. you would win the argument every time and no need to explain to the rest of us.
My assumption of being a Pro is he/she is good at the game.
How can you say that "i definiatelly don't understand [Legion TD]" when you dont explain what i dont understand.
Maybe, I exaggerated this time. u seem to understand it well enough but coming and flamming + giving not needed information about balance is kinda... unnecessary.
You said, you value guy4's opinion, what specific opinion? i read his other posts. i agree to some of the points that he made.
I assume that all pros would think fire machine is imbalanced in x3 mode, while guy4 thinks it sucks, which is why i think he sucks. i explained why firemachine is overpowered in the previous post.
His opinion generally. No, guy4 doesnt think so. He thinks as far as I know that FM is useful for first lvls but then it sucks it's not op cheap unit which u can spam till u die, it can provide u some good early income but it's hard to resist difficulty of 4th lvl if u do many workers. It's so fucking truth.

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Re: GG mode

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:47 pm

Responded. Anything more about mode -GG ?

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Re: GG mode

Post  lvlupnow on Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:13 pm

=D
at least this time, your response makes more sense than last time. Is this a joke?
1. narrow mind means lack of tolerance. Maybe in American English, I speak British.
2. if you and egZe can't take any criticism, then you are narrow minded. I can take criticism. There wasn't any spoilt on me but on egZe and I respecting him easy get pissed off seeing comment "he's dumb"
a) i never called egZe dumb, i said "wonder" if he's dumb !
b) easy fix of fire machine would be to remove it, since we have been waiting for like 6 months for the new version Not my fault, wrote to him several times I can take map and fix it i 5 minutes but it's not mine so I am waiting for him. Unless he come in next month/1,5 moths I will release it myself.
3. "then u wanted us to remove x2 and x3 because u think it's impossible to balance it (99% ppl play this modes)"
a) how is 99% of players a valid argument to support x2 and x3? How not?
b) the original mode is x1 But x2 x3 are fun
c) i never said it's "impossible" U suggested
d) since the new version of Legion TD war hasn't come out, an easy fix of imbalance is to remove x2 and x3 Truth, easiest way isn't the rightest
4. FM is useless in the later levels, i agree. However, it's overpowered b/c its early use overcompensates his uselessness in the later game. by getting more workers in the early game, you can get more income. and that extra income is multiplied by 25+ rounds b/c you have more workers than other players therefore, you get more income. Just rewriting me... We both know this I can easily balance FM but I won't egZe will do this.
5. i dont get why egZe can't just release a newer version of easy fixes. Cause he wanted to do everything at once and have peace and calm
a) remove gg, i know he said, he's going to nerf gg, but it's been like 6 months for that version 2.X Flame, whine, is that all u can provide us with?
b) remove gg, b/c it helps players who overbuild and underbuild (lumberer) b/c ppl overbuild can get extra income (then get more workers) and there's no harm to underbuild while getting more workers.
c) the players should build just enough to cover the waves without leaking while trying to maximize their income. unless they choose to be lumber, then their team need cover the leaks without extra help from gg mode
d) further more, in x1 mode, i can build in the middle and take on 2 lanes. no need to have gg On x3 using proper race - me too, what is imbalanced so if x1 is easy on middle?
e) since 99% of ppl play x2, x3, i agree with that %, they also play with gg, which makes 99% of players into noobs. why would you encourage noobness? I like x2 x3 too. I am fully against noobness like u said but I can't make thisgame designed only for experienced players.


Stop it, no more fucking around, say something constructive and stop arguing with me, u won't win, u can even edit ur posts, no matter.

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Re: GG mode

Post  AA on Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:29 pm

hoy, mate (lvlupnow)! well said

i've lurking overhere for quite a while and look what other people say. only once i felt compelled to participate, but i'll do it again.

1. there is "moderator" who thinks he's job is editing other people's post. he is also a master of spelling and grammar, and is obsessive in CORRECTING them, which is basically total lack of understanding of what moderator means and should do...

2. "moderator" (i'm gonna keep the quotes until he start acting like one, undoubtedly he would change it), is also making "his" version of game, i do have doubts on it, but i'll rather wait to see it

3. oh ("watch what you're saying?"), he has very limited knowledge of the game - look what he "explains" as fact or principle and do the opposite - you'll be right most of the time. anyway, he doesn't understand basics

4. guy4 is a suck-up. however, he has better understanding then "moderator" does, above average, i dare to say. most of his initial claims are right until he bows his head to "moderator"

5. egze made version 2. period. everyone can and should criticize, because it, in the end, improves the game. however, it should be constructive, not just "imba-this-shit-game-imba-you=noob"

6. i was there, too, on official forums, when egze made first (couple of) versions - they were meant to be played on x1. 99% people DO play -x3gg, NO ONE went to X3 from x1, that also proves something

a recent primer to general stupidity - doppelganger:

perfectly good x1 unit. imba, some say. *crap*, said here. now, listen well:
- critical compared to normal damage increased by percentage. basically, it's the same. on rare occasion, it's waste of dmg, since you *can* hit for 400 unit with 20hp. news to you, it happen with all units doing lots of dmg, so it simply doesn't count. on this particular unit - have you seen the damage it does and atsp? damage is almost never wasted, in fact loss is less than of most units
- evasion compared to hp gain. armor types doesn't affect evasion, like it's unarmored (% of hp that is evasion). so, evasion in not to good on fortified armor, but is ok on all the others, light especially. see, LIGHT? on the other hand, taking high dmg for later creeps cause THEM to lose dmg. on lower level it's statistically the same... oh, yes, i forgot ALL GAMES END AT LVL8
- positioning - you put tower with lots of hp in front, right? so high-hp, high-dmg units are killed first, so that your old crap can kill the wave, aren't you? anyone who does this will find doppel is a crap. however, anyone whose gateguards and such do the tanking, and doppels do the damage (especially with two auras and buff from dark mage), doesn't. period.


on an unrelated note, where is egze? the updates on changelog sections were pretty regular, and then just stopped, not the mention posts... anyone knows what he does?

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Re: GG mode

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:39 am

Ok, I will not reply this bulk of bullshit. Just three things:
1. I am not changing ones' words just writting my notes in green next to their to make thread not too big.
2. Just wanna let u know I used to put my doppels in second line behind gateguards/harbingers until I realised hadeses are much better.
3. I am not egZe's nanny - no idea where he is...

P.S. Get away from this forum, no one cares about ur opinions, flamming etc. u exhausted my patience since u brought ur gay-friend lvlupnow. Do not write here anything again.

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Re: GG mode

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