how to change to merc?

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how to change to merc?

Post  kevs926 on Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:54 am

i play on ENT bots, the mode is the host pick prophet
sometimes i can change at level 5 sometimes 6 , 7 , 8
what are the conditions to change the builder to merce?

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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  NERV on Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:22 am

Mercenary is disabled on 3.5 Mega beta (although you can still see Merc builder when you choose -ap mode, but it is not possible to pick him).

On 3.41 Mega, the requirements are:

  • You must have at least 500 value.
  • You must have less than 50% of rec. value.
  • -cb mode must be on.
  • -li mode must not be enabled.

It is worth to mention, Mercenary cannot deploy fighters after level 30.

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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  kevs926 on Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:49 am

not really, i have done it b4 level 5, and the value is 800 which means i need 400 below, but 500 value is also a reaquirement

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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  NERV on Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:19 am

Keep in mind those are 3.41 requirements.

Mmmm.... for a while Huanak did try to balance merc in a better way during the very first 3.5 beta, so it's possible he have changed the trigger. Anyway, without a replay, I find it hard to believe you changed to Merc at level 4. As I said before, he might have changed the trigger code, but AFAIK, the trigger code uses the previous level data, so it is 50% of rec. value of level 4 in question, which is way under 500 value.

In other words, the trigger runs at the beginning of the round, and not mid round. Another thing worth mentioning is that once you've reached the requirements for Merc, the option will be enabled for you on all levels after that. The trigger does not run again, so it's possible to change to merc even if you don't meet the first two requirements, but you must have meet them at least once. It was intended this way.
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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  kevs926 on Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:11 am

here



this is the replay file
s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=00014618749795421053
or
filedropper.com/replay201411151103

i dunno how to attach file..

around 10:40 of the replay time i change to merc

it was around 25s b4 wave 5 starts

i had exactly 500 value


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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  NERV on Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:32 am

Neat =).

This is really weird, because you really did avoid the minimum requirements. I do not know what happened.

And none of the early levels you had less than 50% rec. value, so I really don't understand. Perhaps a leaked/score hidden requirement? Perhaps the 50% rec. value only kicks in after some levels? To map makers: Perhaps Mercenary trigger uses point value as reference, so there is a possibility some Undead fighters are bugged, just guessing  Rolling Eyes . I am not sure. However, as you stated previously, you did meet the minimum 500 value...

The map is 3.41 official as well...

Crazy stuff. I am glad there will be no more merc on 3.5. One less bug to correct. What a Face

Furthermore, only someone with access to Mega triggers could try to explain this. Anyway, I would like to point out that 3.41 Mega is not really supported by Saucer and Kongk, since it was made by HuanAk alone years ago, and also, 3.5 is the present version, but I think Mercenary trigger codes are still inside 3.5 map.


EDIT: I am not sure about this, but 50% rec. value of level 2 is 175, and zombie fighter point value is 180. Perhaps the trigger sees that as "under valued", and by then, you'd have just meet the first value requirement for Mercenary, remaining only the minimum 500 value requirement to be fulfilled.

Can you replicate this using other towers?
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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  kevs926 on Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:16 am

so the 50% value requirement can be met earlier?

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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  supersexyy on Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:46 pm

You need to leak a certain amount to merc. If you don't leak much you can't swap.

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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  Nortan on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:46 am

Ugh, merc was one of the worst implementations to the game. 90%+ of games on UC weren't -hp prophet/hybrid just cause they were more fun. It was so that people couldn't just pick merc (or paladins...).

I was in a 3.41 Ent game (shudder/sigh) with cross builders (don't get me started on cross D:) and the player that was the "incomer" switched to mercenary on level 17 and put down incredible value. Why? Because they saved for level 17 and sent multiple demons and krakens and all kinds of things.

Basically what it came down to is that it was just about impossible for them to leak onto their king when they have someone way over valued and someone max valued built with that person as mercenary, and playing in a normal manner without abusing cross or LOL mercenary lead to us getting utterly destroyed. No amount of overbuilt and preparation would have saved us in that situation; just got to watch it happen and wonder slightly how they managed to hold so amazing (we didn't save a ton but we did send and they just ate it up). When the game ended I quickly figured out what happened, and it almost makes you sick when you think about how messed up playing like that is even if it is ENT and even if ELO is on the line... I can't blame them since it is part of the game; it's just so underhanded and impossible to play normally against. After that game I honestly lost some of my motivation to continue playing legion and I stay away from ENT games where that type of play can be expected. The saving didn't even bother me and I expect it in every ENT game but combining cross with mercenary is just disgusting. ENT is all just about who can abuse what more and how much you can save to end the game prematurely (usually lvl 17. sometimes lvl 20).

Some people like those types of games and saving. I can agree that it's a bit more engaging then 3.5 games where many game will continue to the end and can even get into the saving spirit. I'm just not interested in using any method possible to ensure victory and boost dat elo!
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Re: how to change to merc?

Post  vladimir3388 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:55 am

Well, if your team had decent anti level 17 builds with 4500 value each, you would be able to survive level 17 with few heals spent and then it would be even more simple to survive 20, because enemies wouldn't be able to send so much because of merc. After turtles, all you need to do is survive until level 31 with safe play. I've seen that merchanery change tactic on levels 17 or 20 on ENT severl times and some of those are the only legion games on ENT which ended after level 20, because the team with merc wasn't able to send so hard anymore, but wasn't able to leak as well.
Basically, that tactic is good only if your entire team looks weak for level 17 or 20 and you're sure you will lose, so you're buying a chance to survive it, but you have to be sure enemy will lose on next one or you're screwed. Well, it's still pretty gay if all your allies start rushing income after level 10 and make huge incomes and save a lot of lumber, by keeping only 3500-4000 value on 17, so your allies might be able to send 2 demons each and some more stuff, and you'll be still able to survive longer than the enemy because of merc overbuild.

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