Changelog 2.x continued

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Changelog 2.x continued

Post  guy4 on Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:34 am

The last changelog 2.x topic was locked/closed, but some more changes have appeared in the changelog which look AWESOME. i.e. levels 31-35, new race etc.

This looks like its going to be a great version. Just wanted to ask why -cb is being removed? it was an awesome "fun" mode. Timing changing your builder at the right time added to the strategy immensely and trying to get the best balance of all the races before level 31 was a challenge. I know Egze will have a good reason for removing it, but was just wondering why. Is it because of the ghost and goblin abuse (with spamming specs with 1 upgraded archon mage), so the specs end up doing 40+ dps for 25 gold (thats if you get lucky enough to random them 1 after the other, else it starts to cost too much to keep changing builder).


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and when

Post  idan on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:24 pm

and when the new ver gonna out?

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:16 pm

when egze finish

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  Visitor on Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:55 pm

guy4 wrote:Just wanted to ask why -cb is being removed?

Maybe cause this mode makes the game too easy to play(like -gg). I liked this mode too, but I guess that doesn't matter albino
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  xcut on Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Good idea with new summons. What ability have first summon (box) ?l ooks mysteriously Very Happy

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  eGze on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:35 am

xcut wrote:Good idea with new summons. What ability have first summon (box) ?l ooks mysteriously Very Happy

Its something like Hybrid. You send "gift" to your enemy, inside can be random summon (militia, blood orc, ballista, kraken, Ilidan) Smile
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  Visitor on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:57 am

Bah...And what will be the lumber cost of this gift? Looks too powerful when spammed...
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:15 am

I guess kinda average, i don't like this idea. Better imho to make explosive summons, they explode on king, dealing dmg to him, but die easily. At example, for first 10 seconds they move unusally slow, then they are hurrying a bit and try to get to the king, if they come close any normal unit, they explode with no effect, if they explode on king they give bonus income/minus income/big dmg/drain king's stats, do whatever.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  eGze on Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:36 am

Visitor wrote:Bah...And what will be the lumber cost of this gift? Looks too powerful when spammed...

You can send one "gift" every 5 minutes. cost: 450 lumber. 20 income.
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  Visitor on Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:49 am

eGze wrote:You can send one "gift" every 5 minutes. cost: 450 lumber. 20 income.

Well, this looks OK for me. rabbit
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  guy4 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:42 pm

This map is getting better and better by the day Smile.

Are there any plans to change the tree's that the workers gather lumber from, to make them in a formation that you can get more workers? i.e. normally by lvl 21 or 22 you have 27/28 workers and 3 lumber upgrades which is pretty much the optimal amount of workers to get the maximum lumber per second. So for the last 9 levels until 31 your income might be going up but because you cant get any more workers those levels become "easy" in the sence that you dont have to try build the minimum amount to get max workers out.

Now with an extra 10 levels, you maxing out workers just half way through the levels so the last 18 or 19 levels you just build towers which takes away a bit from the chalenge of balancing workers and towers.

Do you think you could change the formation of the trees or the collison size of the workers so that you can get a max amount of around 40 workers instead of 27/28. It would also make the 4th lumber upgrade worth getting with more workers. At the moment you never need to get the 4th lumber upgrade becuase its more efficient to max workers with say 27/28 workers and 3 lumber upgrades as opposed to 24 workers and 4 lumber upgrades.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  Visitor on Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:49 am

guy4 wrote:This map is getting better and better by the day Smile.

Are there any plans to change the tree's that the workers gather lumber from, to make them in a formation that you can get more workers?

This is a very good idea! I haven't thought of it before! Actually it can be added a 5th lumberjack upgrade as well. You will have 10 more levels to research it Smile In x3 mode most of the good players have max workers and lumberjack upgrades before level 20. And now the levels are 40 and there are new summons. Adding a 5th lumberjack upgrade will make the game even more interesting.
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  eGze on Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:43 am

Visitor wrote:Adding a 5th lumberjack upgrade will make the game even more interesting.

OK. Upgrade is better than more trees.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:48 am

I think personally that we need to add some variation here too. Either some kind of gold mines (maybe high tier, expensive money makers? sounds strange and i've no idea how to make it exactly, but maybe so creative person as egze is will take anything from this, which i doubt about anyway Wink ). So maybe another kind of workers, at example ghost workers (no collision, or upgrade to no collision, denies the rest, look down), Faster-better machines (cost more food, gold, some lumber too, denies Lumberjack Trening) (this goblin machine), maybe upgrade for workers speed? maybe replacing trees nearer the base? I think that adding all those upgrades will make it imbalanced as hell so rather think about one or let use only one option.

Gift? i am curious what will it look like but i trust egze so, lets see.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  eGze on Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:22 am

Red wrote:eGze, you want to add 10 levels and new boss, but in version 2.7 when play 2 full team there are big lags on last levels (so many creatures, buffs,spells etc). I suspect, that in 2.8 during 39 level we will see slide-show.
Maybe you can decrease the number of mobs in x2 and x3 mods or find other solution?

I can remove X2, X3 and problem will be resolved cheers
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  guy4 on Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:46 am

Another lumber upgrade is great (thansk for this), but it wont help much still because the problem is the workers "collide" into each other so only a certain amount of workers can be gathering lumber whilst the others have to wait.

By allowing the workers to gather 17 lumber at a time will only help marginally as the worker will spend 17 secs gathering the 17 lumber whilst the other workers have to wait (if you have 27 workers for example). It will save the workers from walking backwards and forwards more regularly but the worker collisons will still not allow for a much improved lumber per round rate.

i.e. a lot of guys dont think its worth it to get the 4th lumber upgrade which lets workers gather 13 lumber at a time because its more efficient to get a few more workers.

I think the only real solutions are to:
- reduce worker collison size
- make them move faster and gather lumber faster
- change tree formation to allow more workers to gather at same time
or use some of PROC's ideas to allow better lumber per round

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:19 am

guy4, i think ur ideas are bad because improving incoming will only encourage noobs to go full income while they don't pay anything at all for these simplifications. What's more, my ideas would be stupid as well if egze let incomers to get everything - no collision (ghosts workers), lumberjack, speed improvement, goblin machines, closer trees etc. The point is to give only 1 thing and let players choose which one they pick. It will also make game more elitary and needing thinking more.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:01 am

Nope, sry guy4 1 thing would be good anyway - giving more space, deffinitely not imbalanced.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  Red on Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:23 am

I can remove X2, X3 and problem will be resolved
Bad idea )
X2 and X3 gives crazy soundes to game.
Maybe X2 = normal quantity + 75% of normal. And X3 = normal + 150% of normal. It gives some chance to reach 40-th level.

P.S.

And I think goblin's thieve of level 3 (fire machine?) is to powerful for X3. It like boss. One this goblin can kill 1, 2, 3 and 5 waves alone. Maybe his ability is too cheat?

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  Visitor on Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:12 am

I just saw this in the changelog: Added Final Battle (team 1 vs. team 2)
Does it mean that in the end both teams will fight each other with all the towers they have built?
So there will be no last survivor, I mean the last level will be removed? Or the mobs will come only once and then both teams will fight each other with the towers that survived this wave.
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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:20 am

Visitor, I am just talking with egze about it, its pretty complex, he is considering my suggestions and all possible options, give him (us?) some time. I am sure he doesn't know how will that look yet. As I said he's basing on REMADE version but with more improvements, balance etc. etc. just let him finish this. It's my greatest suggestion thus i am so happy he took it.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  guy4 on Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:46 pm

PROC, with gg mode removed, I dont think incomers will be a problem any longer. Especially with HG mode.
The thing is with 10 more levels being added, the game becomes "easy" from level 22 onwards (for 1 wave) because you just build as you have max workers and like was said above you can max workers before 20 (with 3 waves). So after level 20/22 all you do is build, the challnege is gone with balancing building workers and buildings, because once max workers have been achieved you just build.

This was kinda alright with just 31 levels. i.e. if you max workers at level 22, then only for 9 levels you just building. But now with an extra 10 levels, it will be 19 levels of just building.

Dont get me wrong I am very excited by an extra 10 levels Smile. But everything needs to be balanced along with the extra 10 levels. Another thing is, will the food limit be extended to 300 (for 3 waves with the extra 10 levels). In the last 10 levels peoples income can exceed 1000 quite easily leading to more food limit being needed because so many more buildings.

Another thing to think about is - because you can build so much more (due to extra 10 levels) you will have so many more buildings, and so collsions of buildings and buildings not attacking creeps because they are too far away will be increased greatly.

So during the round only half your army may be fighting whilst the rest stays behind as the creeps havent come into their line of site for the buildings to attack the creeps.

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  guy4 on Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:49 pm

Oh yes, Just wanted to say a BIG thank you to EGZE and PROC for all the wonderful ideas being developed, this map is getting better and better!!! Smile

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:01 pm

to Me? nah man, rather to egze i just have potent mind to think but no hands to work, egze has both.

About mentioned problems - I see four solutions to get well with. Give upgrades to each single unit providing 41 lvl (another tower, at example Mudman - Golem - Granite Construct). Make arena wider or possibly give longer radius of detection to all towers or just do what i was writing about - add new 7 lvl tier towers, Personaly I think that introducing all those things ould be the best, but waiting for next version will last too long for some ppl. Well, I can wait for this legion revolution, why don't we call it v.3.0 hm egze ? ;D

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Re: Changelog 2.x continued

Post  PROcuratorDotA on Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:02 pm

anyway, if u egze want me to invent for u those untis I will do it with pleasure (all skills + hp, dmg etc.), just let me know.

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